What is it to be transformed?

Not so long ago there was - based on the 1975 discussions with Bohm - this question of transformation, here a start based on the QOTD.

Questioner: Is there such a thing as transformation? What is it to be transformed?

Krishnamurti: When you are observing, seeing the dirt on the road, seeing how politicians behave, seeing your own attitude towards your wife, your children and so on, transformation is there. Do you understand? To bring about some kind of order in daily life, that is transformation; not something extraordinary, out of this world. When one is not thinking clearly, rationally, be aware of that and change it, break it. That is transformation. If you are jealous watch it, don’t give it time to flower, change it immediately. That is transformation. When you are greedy, violent, ambitious, trying to become some kind of holy man, see how it is creating a world of tremendous uselessness. I don’t know if you are aware of this. Competition is destroying the world. The world is becoming more and more competitive, more and more aggressive, and if you change it immediately, that is transformation. And if you go very much deeper into the problem, it is clear that thought denies love. Therefore one has to find out whether there is an end to thought, an end to time, not philosophize over it and discuss it, but find out. Truly that is transformation, and if you go into it very deeply, transformation means never a thought of becoming, comparing; it is being absolutely nothing.

Brockwood Park, England | Krisnamurti Foudation Trust Bulletin 42, 1982


Thank you, Wim, this is precious.

Insightful as these words are, the world today is worse off than 1982.

Doesn’t such a comment indicate that the past still influencing the present?
Moreover, measurement belongs to the practical world.

The “practical” world of survival undergoes constant transformation.

It depends on what you mean by transformation, much of what we commonly call transformation is just movement or change.

Is it transformation not to enter your house when it is burning ?

Wondering what @WimOpdam means by transformation? We can read and listen to what K says about it.

What is K saying? Is it that transformation is about seeing one’s “own attitude towards” what one sees?

A “seeing” that does not fall back into the past, the known, thought, analysis - maybe because when one has seen one’s relationship to experience, one sees the limits of that relationship?

I think so. I am set apart from the world. My ‘new’ brain lets me reflect and wonder about this. It’s quite frightening in a way, I’m totally alone no matter how many or much I attach myself to…fear from this way of seeing underlies everything I do.

The radical psychological revolution or ‘transformation’ that he thinks is possible is the breaking through that way of seeing. (?)

My experience is of a me in here, and a world out there - this is my reality, it is what I see - for me, this experience is the truth.

My attitude is that what I see/think/believe, is the truth.

That’s, it seems, how we live and how we will die. And it wouldn’t be necessary to go through all this ‘searching’ if we weren’t making such a mess of things. But we are. We’re causing a lot of suffering in and around ourselves. We’re frightened, greedy, competitive, arrogant, aggressive etc and for what?

Does it matter at all if this brain / body dies without breaking (stepping) out of this ‘stream’?

Until my attitude is revised by my realization that my reality is a distorted version of “the truth”. I’m in contact with actuality always, but always distorting it to suit my self.

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Only if we truly care about all this unnecessary conflict and pain.

Do you? Or do you just react and then ignore or justify in some way and leave it at that?

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But that´s the point, as being alone there is not fear at all, just awareness, seeing, reflecting or deepening, wonder … it is in relationships that the self (mine/I) raises and the feeling of loneliness appears bringing about fear because of comparison which doesn´t mean that we can´t be alone in relationships with the world and others, but there is always a point at which we become conscious of the difference, so to speak, and this is frightening, indeed. Kind of, wait, what am I going into? But we can´t un-listen or not to know what we have listened and known so, the hanging around the abyss begins. It never could fully understand it but now I´m thinking that this is why K said that consciousness of the self is a false consciousness. Maybe this too has to be seen.

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Isn’t this the ‘consciousness’ that Douglas was describing?:

“My experience is of a me in here, and a world out there - this is my reality, it is what I see - for me, this experience is the truth.”

I meant what has to be seen is the process, how it comes about, the falseness of it and the deceit, rather in the sense of awareness than regarding to the content. How simple awareness becomes aware of an “I” that is aware of whatever.

How do you know it has to be seen unless you’ve seen it? I would agree that the whole of it has to be seen, but I don’t know this for a fact, so are you speaking from the fact that you are whole, undivided, unfragmented, without conflict, free, transformed, or just blustering like so many others here do?