No, I’m afraid that we don’t share it. You want it to last, which is greed. No fruit can last forever. If you want to smoke, smoke. If you want sex, have sex. Then there is no conflict. But if you say, ‘I will live a life of total purity,’ that’s guaranteed conflict right from the moment you say it.
So where is conflict? Where is the heart of the crisis?
No. The fruit can last forever. The want is a desire. If we are aware, the desire not arise at all. It is practical and actual and I’m doing that.
Why do one have to smoke? - We can see that - body is dying daily - little by little - naturally. I’m not attached to body. But I don’t have to artificially make it die. It is like if one wants to kill others - kill. If one wants to attempt for a suicide - attempt.
There is Desire for smoke and sex. Can’t you see that as desire?
I don’t say I will. But I can see what are the effects of smoke,masturbation.
You are again and again playing tricks verbally with words to show that - You are right. You are blocking yourself to see what happens actually.
You accept that desire for smoke and sex - is natural. It is not. It is just another kind of pleasure. Please can you see that?
Then it is no longer fresh, just a petrified fruit. You want it to last forever; you hope it will because then it will take you away from the problem of pleasure.
See what you are saying is right. If we want that last forever - then conflict. I don’t argue that. I can see that.
But I ask - I am that fruit. But suddenly women comes and smiles. Then thought arises as desire and becomes I want this. Please - Can you see that?
What is it you want? You have formed an image of the pleasure you will receive; that’s all you want. There is nothing behind the image, certainly not a real human being. And if she looks at you with the same image, you may spend the next fifty years together and never meet.
Sorry. I can’t understand this. Is this what you mean,
‘If you have an image and she have an image - and it is same - go on. There is nothing wrong in that.’
No. The images are empty. They can never lead to real relationship.
That’s what I say too. If you have an ‘Image’ that you will seek ‘pleasure’ from her. Then there is no actual relationship. So desire arises because of ‘pleasure’ which is ‘image’. If no thought arises - it means there is no image of pleasure - it means there is no desire which is ‘want’.
Can you observe?. The fruit cannot be then disturbed at all. It remains forever. There is nothing to stop it - as there is no thought as a desire(want),belief,etc…
Then the life is extremely beautiful. Then there is actual relationship with humanity. Do you feel that?
You are swapping one image for another, that’s all that is happening here. You are solving the problem of pleasure with a quick formula, which means you have not looked into the heart of it.
See. I’m again going step by step.
1 - Now I am that fruit.
2 - Women comes
3 - Awareness says beautiful. Beautiful is immediate action - in the sens - like watching a moutain and say ‘Wonderful it is.’ To feel the nature’s beauty no wrong in it
4 - She smiles.
5 - Awareness says Wow. What a beauty. Same as ‘3’
6 - Thought comes in and says ‘What if I have sex with her’
7 - Image comes out from that as a pleasure.
8 - Desire comes “I want her”.
I’m saying after 8 - if I think i need that fruit again - then there is conflict. You are right. I accept it.
But - if we are in full awareness - that to have sex reduces your energy - then the thought which is 6 - does not springs at all. So there is no 7 & 8. So if there is no 6 at all in my life i.e. if thought does not arises as pleasure/desire/belief/etc… Then what remains? - The fruit remains. It is there. Always.
Life is beautiful. You will fee the nature’s beauty as it is. No thoughts, no images, no desires. There is actual relationship with all. It is the ‘one’ which is ‘Love’,‘Consciousness’,‘god’ - whatever name it is.
It remains there always. Only thought had covered it before - as we were ignorant. But not now. It is wonderful if you actually feel it.
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That’s another image. You have tasted something extraordinary and you want to keep it. You can’t.
We are sharing the fruit - this you see right? (which had mentioned I am fruit - If you see it as wrong - please leave that word. It is a feeling). So now we share this fruit together actually and we see there is no image at all. Nothing. It is intelligence. I doesn’t desire to keep it always. Because - in this intelligence/awareness/consciousness/god/freedom/etc… nothing as thought arises. You see that or not?. Please I beg you. Don’t restrict yourself from seeing.
Can you say why you can’t. Please show me what is there to change/put off the intelligence/freedom. Freedom is freedom from all. All means All. Thats all. It is ‘Nothing’. In this ‘nothing’ - no thing/thought arises.
I see that, you see - but you are just showing it will end - to show that you are right when you said - ‘if you want to do it - do it’. I won’t blame/scold/tease/etc… you - if you change your view. Because we are psychologically one - and sharing the fruit. So please be open.
I have came to this forum - only to show all that I have a view - which may be right/wrong - that there is freedom from thoughts. I don’t ask any kind of acceptence. I just ask to observe. If you think/belief that there is no freedom from thoughts - please say it straight forward. So that, I don’t try to show - who is not willing to listen - because it will become like authority/order.
I observe the fruit gets fresh itself - moment by moment - second by second (i.e. without thought,belief,pleasure,pain,sufferings,pain,ego,self,etc…). So, Please I beg you - please be straight forward - that you believe/think the ‘fruit does not last long’.
You can’t hold on to the truth; just as you can’t hold on to joy or beauty or love. You are holding on to images only, which are the dead remains of something wonderful. They are images formed from the same pit of desire that wants to sleep with a pretty woman. Why do we form such images? First comes the image of the woman which brings us pain disguised as pleasure; then to escape the pain, rather than face it directly, comes more and more images. Each time it is a movement to help ourselves get out of the pit. But what is the pit? What lies at the heart of all our painful desires? So it is a whole new fruit we have to grow, not keep taking bites from a mouldy, rotten thing.
If you want to go into it, we can start a new topic especially for that purpose. But there must be a clear question that comes straight from the heart so that we are not wasting our time dealing with a lot of theoretical problems. The moment you put that question you have planted the seed; and the fruit is in the seed.
If Paul is correct about caviswa, and caviswa is correct about Paul, then being correct can only mean conflict. If there is a belief in dialogue as something which can reveal the process thinking is, then what exactly has been revealed here other than a delusion on the part of one or both parties? This is a question I am putting to myself you understand.
The brain, working as a problem solver, is stuck seeing everything, and what her or she says, as a problem.
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@Peter
So when I see I am isolated at a fundamental level, if what I experience as my fear even allows me to get that far, my insistence on seeing it as a problem I must solve or overcome, by supplanting it with meeting or togetherness, means that pattern continues on?
Meeting or togetherness is not a problem, is it?
@Peter
Well it clearly is for those who want to be it or to have it, and when it is an escape from the fact of isolation