Is this actually happening or is it just a theoretical scenario? Have you actually lost someone?
Once. She cared me and was crazy about me and she loved/attached with me. And I was attached with her. Not ‘physically’. Later on, she left me. I had approached her many times - but she didn’t looked at me. ‘you know how it would have felt’. I see that I suffer. At that time - I don’t know about K and his view. I studied many scriptures, practiced - but that sufferings had not left. I cried for years. Then one day there was a book in my Father’s Book shelf - which was gifted by someone and it’s name is “Freedom from the known”. I first read it casually. Then I found his view is much more serious. I had viewed many discussions - he done with educators,scientists,students,etc… I had enquired each and every observations of K - within me. This what happened.
So, let’s keep it aside. Now i cry,alone of her leave. I see that ‘I’ am suffering. Then?
While you see that you are suffering, you remain separate from it. Therefore you are not really suffering; you are delaying the suffering, keeping it at arm’s length. Do you want to go into it?
Of course. I cry a lot. I suffer. I don’t know what to do. Help me.
Edit - Shall we discuss that in this topic - or shall we have it in a new discussion?
Howard, thank you for all your efforts to try and convey what you understand by dialogue. I sense that whatever intention there may be about us, or whatever format is set up to realise such a thing, the capacity for listening and sensitivity will always be the lion’s share of it?
Why are you asking for help? It is this very impulse to seek help from another that has brought you to this point. In attaching oneself to a girl or a boy, seeing them as the answer to all of one’s prayers, it is just a way of eluding the fact of one’s own emptiness. No-one can help you face this fact. But it is the same fact for every human being. Therefore we can look at it together.
Finally. You start to observe the ‘I’ which is ‘suffering’. Thanks a lot. hats off.
So I suffer - because I am ‘attached’ to the ‘past’ which is the ‘pleasure/experience’ - when I was being with her. I had never got in my whole life. And I thought that this is love. And so I cry that - I had lost it. Right?.
Then there is also ‘fear’ that 'Will i have to be in this loneliness for my whole life i.e. in the ‘future’ too. Right?
Pleasure only exists in the past or the future: it is remembrance of times gone or anticipation of times to come. And so it is with pain. Without the past remembrances or the future hopes and fear, pain has no foothold. Without the past and the future, thought has nowhere to hide, nowhere to go. Therefore, in order to maintain its sovereignty of the brain, thought lives always elsewhere from the present moment. While you are reading these words there is neither pain nor pleasure; all that only comes in when you stop reading and begin to think back or look forward. Neither the backward nor the forward looking have any substance or reality; and yet we shed tears galore over these imagined pictures.
Love is neither pleasure nor experience nor remembrance. Therefore when you put all your feelings into one place, this can never be love. It means that love is always waiting to be discovered; it can never be caught in time. The real beauty of life, the wholeness of love and goodness, is in meeting one another now.
Absolutely. So we are caught up in the ‘image’ - that this is ‘love’ and so we are ‘attached’ to it. Now the crying guy wakes up. He sees that, he is living his whole life with the ‘images’ that he once had pleasure - ‘now’ he not have that and he is seeking for that pleasure again which is non-sense. He found that he is nothing. He found that he suffered through pain - only because he stuck up with a belief that ‘pleasure’ is real. Then he is aware about that. In his ‘awareness’ - no thought springs again - to bring back the past. And so he does not suffer anymore. Can u see that?
He is not suffering now - that is enough. He has tasted the fruit of something.
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Thats all.
So from now on, if someone asks you to ‘smoke’, how you react?
To smoke a cigarette? I doubt anyone would ask me. But if we were at a picnic and it kept away the flies, maybe.
I don’t know why you have gone off to this question. It immediately brings in time and sets you back on the same track.
Why you say that - is there relaxations for picnic?
When someone asked ‘will you smoke a cigeratte?’ - ‘thought’ comes in and says ‘you had a pleasure in a picnic. We can relax for that situation’. Just to increase dopamine i.e. to have psychological pleasure (which is not reality) - the thought brings back the old experience and makes you to smoke. But if you are aware, no thought springs in and you can observe its effects that ‘smoking’ leads to death… Then you reply ‘No. I will not smoke at all’.
Can you see that - how we are in control of ‘thoughts’?
Then there is a controller, who is no different from the thoughts. So forget the hypothetical smoker. He may never materialize. There may never be any picnic.
Has suffering come to a complete end? Not tomorrow, but now. Are we tasting that freedom, sharing the fruit of it together? Or has it just been a lot of words we have shared?
Yes. Suffering end. We are sharing the fruit of it together.
But i observe that - you share it or not. If you share it - you would not have replied that,
Why are you concerned with future events? I said, ‘Maybe,’ and it is now a barrier between us.
We are sharing it together ‘now’. And is this fruit continues 24/7?. That’s why i posed that question.
And i said if someone asked. I won’t ask - because I’m fully aware of it. But the someone - who is ‘third person’ will ask. You are trying to escape from what you had said.
See. We are sharing it - But if a woman cross us - her structure makes us to continually see her beauty. And if she smiles on seeing you - then thought arises ‘I need her’. If she rejects/ if you know you can’t grab her - thought arises and says ‘Watch porn. Do masturbation’.
And it is happening around always
But - ok. Let’s keep it aside.
Yes. We share it together.
Yes, we can agree that conflict is one of the most serious issues we face. We can look internally and externally at conflict and discuss it here with others. We can be watchful while discussing to see if we are really discovering something new together or merely eager to exchange previous knowledge.
I may be wrong, but I don’t see awareness as all or nothing. One can be fully aware when the mind is silent, partially aware when the mind in relatively quiet or completely unaware when the mind is buzzing with thought. Thought certainly varies in intensity and this variation in intensity seems to affect awareness proportionately. However, my original point was that one can be highly aware with a quiet mind one day and extremely unaware another day when one is lost in thought. This is what I have personally observed. I don’t know if others have experienced something different.
Yes. Yes. Yes. I too see this.
Could you show me a situation for this - so that i can learn it too. Because I have different opinion in this - which is ‘awareness’ is different from ‘sub-conscuious/conditioned’ mind.