We are not attacking thought. Thought is not an enemy. We are saying that when one is faced with a real problem, posing verbal solutions is what keeps those problems alive.
But the mud is still there, down at the depths and at a distance. So then the way out becomes a matter of keeping the mud from being further disturbed. Any kind of looking within is therefore rather pointless because one is only looking at an idealised version of the mind.
Please, Don’t describe his capability that absolute.
He certainly pointed us to the tendency of the monkey’s tricks!
The monkey’s tricks,
Another patently false conclusion from the conditioned brain of Paul, which negates the “art of seeing” and everything K. Of course, the heavily conditioned intellectual brain which doesn’t meet K’s criteria is incapable of seeing “what is” within. So, this brain invents a new religion that has nothing to do with K.
One wonders when thought operating all the time like this from this brain is like the motor of a car running all the time (as K discussed), is the reason for Alzheimer’s… not a risk Charley is interested in…
But you have not considered the whole picture. The mind may look perfectly clear and calm but the mud is still there at the depths. Is it possible to look within at the moment when the mud once again gets stirred up, agitated? This is the question. And usually it gets stirred up by our interactions with other people, by what they say, what they do, when their behaviour does not fit in with our idealised patterns of behaviour.
The Whole Picture,
The word “whole” is related to the word “holy” - not that you have a whole brain, because one must not have any fear within in order to have such a brain. And as you have said before several times, Paul, you have fear within. You have said you are afraid. So you don’t have a whole brain, and therefore you cannot even see the whole picture. Your fear prevents this, so you cannot see the whole picture. The reason you cannot see the whole picture is that you speculate and draw so many patently false conclusions, (i.e. an entire thread: How might the war end?), in which there are also incorrect conclusions.
You wouldn’t speculate were you to have a whole brain, nor would you refer others to access a BBC article speculating as to 5 different scenarios as to what might happen in the future. One has access to BBC world news on cable TV, and had noticed that was a reference to this article about “How might the war end?”, and intelligence understood immediately that it was speculation, so didn’t bother to read it, but then you introduced this speculative article into this site, so I glanced at it. Pathetic article. You are always talking about now, but contradict yourself when you refer to something that might happen. The beginning defines the end. When the war began, one understood immediately that it was going to be a slaughter, mass murder, genocide. The “free” world is stalling, because it is stuck in thought and fear, so it has not really begun to do the right thing. It is only trying to mitigate the effects on its economies.
The reason why there is war in Europe is that the dark side has become status quo for the entire world which the conditioned brain of humanity (the “mud”) has brought about. The more that thought dominates those who cannot see within, the darker the world becomes…
Yes, that’s right. And you are not. So we cannot talk. Finished. Don’t waste any more time and effort on it.
Paul
When Charley posts anything, even though one addresses a particular person, one always has the sense that one posts to everyone who might read, so it is never a waste of time or effort. Since one had the insight “I am the world and the world is me”, one speaks to everyone. There is also the fact that Charley had the insight, “I am humanity”, one’s last insight, which obliges Charley to speak for and to those who have not yet seen that truth. K had no fear, and talked with everyone. So, one has noticed glimmers of intelligence in some of the people who have put posts since Charley joined the site - some have understood a few things. So, perhaps, one’s posts do not interest you in particular, but others read Charley’s posts. For example, one has had pm interactions where it has been clearly stated how much Charley’s posts are appreciated.
I understand all that. But suppose you have never had the insight? Then what would you do? Surely that makes for a far more fascinating and interactive conversation. Otherwise, it is no different from someone saying, ‘I am the President; I am always right’ - there is only a battle to come out of it.
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Yes, the mud isn’t settled forever, it will eventually get unsettled again. Looking within, we can see this, understand the pattern of it.
We already understand the pattern of it even before we look. The pattern of it is fairly obvious. After all, we have lived with this particular pattern all our lives. The pattern has been to minimise the disturbance; and that’s the same way we look at the disturbance when it arises again, with the same pattern reacting. The mud gets disturbed and the pattern comes in, saying, ‘Manage and minimise this disturbance.’
If what we see and understand is not ‘working’ we can 1) do a Sisyphus and repeat the fail over and over hoping that “I’ll get it right this time!” or 2) give up or 3) look deeper. I vote for Door 3.
Our pattern is to minimize disturbances. The good news: We often succeed. Bad: The success is temporary, the disturbances return. So, looking deeper, what’s going on?
The “pattern” is me, the ‘self’ image. Disturbance changes, threatens its ‘shape’ and it struggles to retain it. The pattern of me can change, with time, knowledge, experience, ‘insight’…but the or ‘a’ pattern prevails. So effort to change the pattern comes from the pattern itself, wanting to ‘become’ a more desirable shape.
Can the brain while alive, ‘let go’ of this whole patterning mechanism?
Why would it want to? Why would we want to? What’s the payoff?
To answer my own question, I guess you could say that freedom is found in letting go of the whole patterning mechanism. And freedom is a big payoff.
But total ending of / independence from conditioning might be a fairy tale. It seems like one to me, but I realize I might be wrong. Less dependent on conditioning, sure, that’s definitely possible, we all know this. But the fully unconditioned wo/man … I really doubt it.
Doubt makes sense when we look around and see what is going on, what it seems has always been going on. K and others brought the message that it’s possible. That, Love is possible. We’ll see.
I assume you mean a specific type of love? We’ve all experienced love in one form or another, so we all know it is possible. Right?
I guess that’s the benefit of someone showing up in your village and saying: “There is another land, far better than this one, I have seen it, I know.” To take the person at their word would be an act of faith or trust or gullibility. But to find out for oneself, yeah, that’s the ticket!
What is happening is that we are content with temporary solutions. Any answer from the self must be temporary. It cannot be anything else. That which is formed by time, shaped by time, must continue to sustain its own time-based patterns.
The pattern is broken every time we are angry, afraid or confused. So we are frequently letting go of the pattern. Or, the pattern has a very limited life-span. Then, when it breaks, we quickly resurrect an old pattern, perhaps modified slightly, and we carry on.
What is there to find out? The land in which we are now living is the only land there is. The dialogue we are in, the family, the job, the city, the town, the country. And we have made a mess of it. Unless we fix it immediately, it can never be fixed even though we may commit the rest of our lives to sorting it out. Is love an ideal? Is love something either in the past or in the future, always either a memory or a hope?
So is love an answer at all? When it stops being an answer to all our ills then surely it is no longer caught in the same pattern which creates our misery.
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Sounds right, so what does “fix it immediately” entail for you? We’ve been told there’s no ‘method’, no ‘fixer’ , no time, etc. K said his secret was that he ‘“didn’t mind what happens”… is that the ‘fixing’ you’re talking about? The ‘not minding’?
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There is no answer. We once again face the prospect of global nuclear war. There is no answer now, just as there was no answer in 1945 when they dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Can the mind remain totally sane in an insane world? There is only the question without a single answer.