That’s why I ask, what is your deepest feeling? Before anything else comes in.
Many good thoughts and ideas here. Without being dismissive, mystical or self aggrandizing, amidst the thoughts, images, actions, oppositions, anger, fears, conflicts and destruction, constant awareness of the movement, source or “ground”…doesn’t the fountain flow constantly? The fountain is here in the dialogue. Do we talk or do we drink? Most of us won’t bend to drink. Sometimes I’d just like to yell out "There’s a fountain here, let’s Drink!
Source: Noun:
1 a place, person, or thing from which something originates or can be obtained…
1A: a spring or fountain head from which a river or stream issues…***
1B: a person who provides information…
1C: a book or document used to provide evidence in research.
2 TECHNICAL a body or process by which energy or a particular component enters a system.
2 A [ELECTRONICS] a part of a field-effect transistor from which carriers flow into the inter-electrode channel.
Oxford Dictionaries. Oxford Dictionary of English, 2nd Edition (Kindle Locations 666267-666281). Oxford University Press. Kindle Edition.
Are you drinking or just quoting definitions?
Can you meet me with what I am stated, the fact of separation for me? Or do you want something, maybe something from me before you meet me? I am open to look at that which is a fact for me, explore it, understand it? Will you meet? Or is there a condition that has to be met before?
Ok. Lets us set the wants of animals aside.
I say - when we are alone - then there is suffering - and when we observe suffering carefully - we can see both physical and psychological needs.
The physical needs are food, cloth, shelter and basic transportation.
And every other needs are psychological needs and that is what I pointed out from persons above poverty line to a billionaire. These are not physical conditioned but psychological.
Can you see that?
That’s just it – I do want something from you. That’s why I am here.
Can you convey to me the essence of the fact, the fact of separation, as you see it and feel it? Can you give me the whole of it in one go? And from there we can move. Or will it take time to show me the picture of separation, revealing it piece by piece?
Dear Paul, that is why we do not meet. I am open to explore. If I would already know, there would be not need to explore. I laid down what separation is to me and where we can start. I am not interested in laying anything down for you. I am concerned in exploring. If that where I started is not suitable for you and you want something else, that is alright. I cannot give you what you want because I do not know what you want.
Yes, I can see that. So the question is, what is a psychologial need? Where does it come from? What is it for?
I can observe something how this psychological need arises when we are alone - but first share your observation - then we can inquire together
Even in our last Saturday dialogue, Jackie asked a question that “ there is an insight - and I ‘want’ to share it immediately and can’t wait - why is it so” this ‘want to express’ is the same psychological need we are now discussing.
So what is this psychological need - how it arises?
What is a psychological need? Is it not status, recognition, support, a pleasant feeling, feeling secure, success, being special and admired by others, being sure that things will be good, being close to others that respect my way of doing things etc. ? And what connects all this? Is it not a knowledge about what I would like to have? Knowledge about a feeling I would like to get?
Then ask me what I want and listen as I tell you. Because I won’t take years, months, weeks, days or even minutes to solve this issue of separation. If we are separate now, we’ll remain separate for eternity. I see this and you don’t. And no amount of enquiry and investigation will alter it. I want you to love me, that’s all; and you won’t do it because the very thought of it is something terrifying. When you see the word ‘love’ you’ll immediately react to it; and in that reaction is the whole picture of human separation.
So you already know. Know about me, my reactions etc. Interesting. Is that love? And does love want? And if you solved the issue of separation then why do you want to meet others for dialogues? Especially if they can not see what you see?
Yes I can see this too - this is all the psychological needs.
So why it arises? If we say it is the knowledge we seen that ‘knowledge is past’. So what kind of knowledge we have/felt before that creates a psychological need?
Can we not know what we are looking at yet?
Dear Viswa,
what knowledge do we have that creates psychological need? First of all we just have knowlege, nothing else, or? It is not that we feel knowlege. We have it as something stored up in our brain. It is just information out of which feelings might arise but first of all it is just knowledge and information. Which are a description of the past. A past that might have happened in reality or it might just be past ideas etc. Knowlege is memory, they go together. I think before we can go into the above question, we should look at what knowlege do we store up in general. What memories we hold? About what?
Good Morning Erik,
The knowledge in general - is everything we stored up in as memory from our birth to till date.
But I see - there is ‘some’ knowledge which is there - which arises when we are alone - and so there is ‘want for something’ and so we get that ‘something’. And i hereby share my observation of that ‘something’.
In our life - we may experienced some kind of ‘pleasure’ like ‘watching movies, spending time with friends, drugs, sex, etc…’ The structure/form of ‘pleasure’ is different from person to person based on their conditions. We had an experience that - this ‘pleasure’ relieved us temporarily from our ‘pain/suffering/etc…’ - and stored up as memory.
From this ‘knowledge of pleasure’ a ‘deep-belief’ is created and stored up in the brain - which we don’t know until we observe.
The ‘deep-belief’ is ‘some physical experience in this universe can give eternal pleasure (not temporary like the above said)’.
So when we are alone - we suffer - and when we observe the ‘suffering’ - we see it arises because of ‘want for something’ - and when we carefully observe why this ‘want for something’ arises - we can see that this ‘deep-belief’ of ‘eternal/unlimited pleasure from physical experience’ is there.
Of course. You know it too. It takes one look at the world and at what we have all made of this beautiful place. We’ll love a good meal, a stunning sunset, a walk in the woods, a fall of snow, a favourite pet, even for a short while a girlfriend or a boyfriend, without any trace of rancour or conflict. Love is your problem, not mine, because I am out of it. You want a journey from separation to connection, from confusion to clarity, from conflict to compassion; and I am denying any such thing. I just want you to love me. That is why I am here. And now I am repeating myself.
But all you have done is repeat your last sentence, omitting the word ‘together’. Are we together? You and I, are we totally together in all this, totally committed to whatever it is that we are about to undertake? Are we willing to give the rest of our life to it?
Is not your wanting the problem? Don’ t you make a personal thing out of it? You want me to love you? Don’ t you separate in the I and you? Is not wanting exact that journey you said you deny?
You are making it personal, not me. I say this to everyone, not just you singular. I have said it even to my boss at work. I don’t mince my words.