Right Action and the Self Dialogue - July 22, 2023

Kinfonet Discussion
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Right Action and the Self 4th Saturday Dialogue

Saturday, 7/22/23
3:30 pm EDT (US), 7:30 PM UTC
(See table at end for the time in your time zone)

Zoom link: Launch Meeting - Zoom

If you want to receive regular announcements for this monthly dialogue, please email Jay Fisher to get on his email list:

jayfisher7@icloud.com

TOPIC: How does one learn about oneself?

“Now there is a difficulty in this. One is observing oneself. One wants to learn about oneself - the more you discover, the more you understand, the greater the freedom. I am using the word ‘more’ purposely for the moment - ‘the more’ is a comparative valuation. I want to understand myself, learn about myself. In observing myself - please do this as the speaker is going into it, do it actually, don’t take it home and think about it, do it now. This is not a group therapy or a confessional or all that nonsense, but watch yourself as we are working together. I want to learn about myself. And myself is a living movement - each desire contradicts the other, they are living, moving, they’re vital. And I observe and through that observation I’ve learnt. With what I have learnt I am going to look next minute. Right? You follow this? I am going to look, observe with the knowledge which I have gathered through previous observation. Am I learning, is there learning then? Because when the mind observes with an accumulated knowledge of its examination, from its examination, that knowledge is preventing perception, that knowledge is preventing the freedom to look. See the difficulty.”

J. Krishnamurti, Public Talk 1, San Diego, California, USA - 05 April 1970

Thoughts on participating in the dialogue process

Dialogue is an attempt to explore together profound problems of existence as they relate to our daily lives. The focus of the dialogue group is not solely on the questions, but also on the moment in which each question arises, and on the whole thought/emotion/relational process with which the individual and the group engage the question.

In contrast to debate and discussion, dialogue is not a comparison of opinions or an attempt to convince another of a held conviction.

Dialogue is an inquiry. Ideally, dialogue begins with “I don’t know” and continues to move into the unknown where the subject gradually reveals itself. The movement is in the back and forth of questioning, not in an attempt to grasp an answer, but to reveal and sweep away that which is not true. A slow pace, a deep and respectful listening to one’s own thoughts and reactions as well as to the person speaking, may put our questions and opinions in a new light. In this new light we may perceive more clearly.

Silver Spring Dialogue Group Statement on Dialogue

Schedule

UTC 7:30 PM

Hawaii 9:30 AM
Alaska 11:30 AM
Pacific US 12:30 PM
Central US 2:30 PM
Eastern US 3:30 PM
Britain 8:30 PM
Central Europe 9:30 PM
Eastern Europe 10:30 PM
India 1:00 AM
Malaysia 3:30 AM
Central Australia 5:00 AM
Eastern Australia 5:30 AM
New Zealand 7:30 AM

@sdg

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CORRECTION: the Right Action and the Self 4th Saturday dialogue is on July 22, not July 7 as originally posted.

@sdg

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The old robot says don’t quote anybody but how else can one share the teachings !

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I think the problem is when we quote some authority and say ; “See, this quote from the Buddha/K/Socrates means I am right and you are wrong”

Or “What I am saying is the same as B/K/S, this quote proves that I have the correct understanding, we are on the same wavelength - when I speak it is as if they speak through me”.

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Yes. I can find myself in this.
After all, it is a question about authority (in the sense of “originator”, which meaning has shifted throughout the years and according to the political, social , psychological and economic climate of that partical period).
It really doesn’t matter if we repeat K as long as we have really understood.
You might argue that it is not necessary to repeat, because all what the man has said is in the open and accesible for every one who will take the pain to listen to it.
There is a saying (biblical) :" where the heart is full, the mouth overflows".

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I have attended many meetings related to theosophy, this kind of dilogue didn’t took place for most of cases. I had this question " who is steering the conversations?", Which I couldn’t figure it out in the moment.

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Is it that our relationship is the direction?

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I had this thought, when the conversation between the members goes in many directions (especially in the live dialogue). I had a sense of confusion and due to that I turn silent.

Thanks for reply

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After looking at your question, I felt that unknown must give the direction.

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Regarding the part of this thread about referencing what others who we respect say: Isn’t it that I, a largely conditioned being, am composed of repetition anyway? So being with our relationship of conditioned interactions is there something other than repetition going on too?

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I love your comment. It makes me ask: when you and i, as self-interested individuals, are influencing the conversation, how could I expect anything else than multiple directions?

This comment makes me ask: can we relate without having any ideas about what’s going to happen in our relationship? it seems that would take a great deal of mutual understanding and trust. How can that happen? I wish I knew.

1 Like
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Maybe that has to be unknown too…

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In love such kind of relation is possible, even society is going opposite. To be frank, I have seen very less number of cases like that.

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I sometimes wonder what it would be like to focus on one person for a while. As in the group spending some time with the goal of understanding what someone is saying.

I have sometimes asked people in dialogue whether anyone has understood what someone has said. Thats always fun. And also if we can identify the source of whats been said - like the presuppositions involved in the claim or the question.

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I would like to try focusing on one person sometime too.

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Are questions genuine or loaded with an answer already? One time in a dialogue we did an exercise where we all dialogued by taking turns asking one sentence questions. What happened is that statements we wanted to make were being deliberately implied in some of the questions !

1 Like
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Seems like I am the culprit :rofl::rofl:

(Said in a jovial way)

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I didn’t sense a culprit behind anything you said! What are you jovially referring too?

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When the old robot said “don’t quote anybody”, he knew you would quote him.

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The previous two replies are all pointing toward " words spoken by a person" & “Questions loaded with implied answers”. All of this originated from our last conversation, that’s why I laughed.