Is there a real normal in any invented organized society?

I don’t see any of this unfortunately - so I am not qualified to hold any strong beliefs about what you say. Sorry.

You might be defending the concept of “the observer is the observed” as opposed to, and superior to all others - as the only understanding that allows for freedom from the known.

In other words when you say : “I am death” - this is pointing to the fact that my idea of death is produced by my brain (ie. observer = observed) and similarly my relationship with death is a relationship between 2 images produced by my brain (O=O again).
The idea being that once this vicious circular confusion is seen clearly, it loses its authority.

Now I put it to you that the image of Death is not the only image produced by the brain. If I have seen that my image of death is a conditioned experience, is it not possible to see that my image of me (and you) must not be allowed full authority either?

Surely the first most important rule is : Don’t be a jerk - avoid constantly being a source of pain in the world.
If my insight makes me more of a jerk, then maybe its a shame I ever had that insight?

Let me try and defend the position that an acceptance of death is possible.

Imagine that we are beating our child or our spouse (ie. violently endangering the mental and physical wellbeing of someone that we feel is a loved one).

If we suddenly become aware of what we are doing I suggest that this will necessarily be a huge shock to us.

Is it not possible to see clearly in this moment that the self is the source of evil?
That the authority of what motivates me, and me doing my best to “improve” the world is always a form of violence?

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Invest in the schools if you close this group or agree it should be closed for having outlived its usefulness, on a dying planet and burning warring world? What a childish, and stupid idea it is to close down this site and K. Ning when the whole world is afire, and nationalism and isolation are becoming the laws of the land globally. For hundreds of thousands of years of mankind against mankind in sports, or boxing, to all the good or bad natural accidents and disasters, to science, and medicine, and winning and losing unfair aggressive wars, or defensive wars. A child can see all the traditional religions lied about the efficacy of any invented divine personal or national favoring, of any nation or person, over others in prayers, for supernatural or divine, aid and help, and good luck in life. See too. generally the most insane and superstitious as winners, or losers wrote the generally untruthful, inaccurate, versions of history in all their religious and historical books. See too in winning any brutal violent, or peaceful personal, or organized battles, or mass movements in life. No aid, of insights and spontaneous seeing, comes to the worst of the species who are programmed religious, or national fanatics only caring about a concept or the general false picture of who they see as their people, or the good against the evil. Mankind that cannot doubt and inquire quite naturally cannot be filled with joy. Cannot receive insights without wrongly interpreting them as always favoring their programming not negating their programming. That is why insights are not rewards for past actions. Naturally insights can only light up and enter the minds of the most inquiring, and sane not the worst of mankind, the extremely insane, that most every nation on earth is forcefully following in fear, or voluntarily following in ignorance.

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Why is there pain? Generally fear of being wrong strengthens the support of the false beliefs.

Hi @macdougdoug , and sorry for the late reply

The point here is that it is NOT “me” who has seen that any image of death that “I” may have is a conditioned experience, but rather it is awareness that sees the conditioning that permeates any idea I can have/imagine about death and everything else (including myself). So the authority of conditioning automatically “dies” in that awareness without any “I” saying “I have seen” at any point, or an “I” having to do anything to stop any image I may have/imagine of myself from becoming authoritative.

p.s.: this is the first and last step/freedom that Krishnamurti was referring to.

I don’t know if you see that whatever you try to do about it will belong to the field of thought, memory, knowledge, comparison, and all the rest. That ‘which is’ needs no defence based on the usual duality of thought, it just needs to be seen in silence, nothing more.

I wonder if you see that the question you ask after the statement is utterly absurd, for if I “suddenly become aware of what I am doing”, I automatically see “clearly that the self is the source of ignorance (sorry, I don’t like the word “evil”)”.

First of all, no one has the power to “improve” the world, so there will be violence in whatever I or anyone else might try to do to “improve it” if we think we can.

No, I can only confront/provoke others to look together seriously at what we think about the world we are trying to “improve” and what is at the root of our intention to “improve it”, nothing else. Change is individual, or as Buddha said “If I had the power to enlighten you, you would all be enlightened, but freedom is in the palm of your hand”.

So yes, you are absolutely right, anything I can do to “improve” the world without seeing what the world actually is (and me with it) will always be a form of violence manifested by my ignorance.

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Due to ignorance of ‘’what is‘’.

If there is a fear of being wrong, there is no actual enquiry, but a mere comparison with whatever beliefs I may have (which may eventually only lead (or not) to a mere change of belief and little else).

On the other hand, there is no such thing as true or false beliefs (as seems to follow from your comment), since any belief is false by nature, not having at any time verified the truth or falsity of it by myself (since any belief that is questioned and shown to be either true or false by awareness, automatically ceases to be a belief).