Is there a real normal in any invented organized society?

[Dano]

If Thought produces the norm in duality, in division what we believe to be standard and normal is not producing in real time a real standard, or a psychological normal at all in any society? . What thought produces in an invented society as an ideal national and family norm. Then the self is an invented psychological fiction called ancient reality. That living in a moral ethical principled reinvented modified ancient reality, is the reality psychiatrists, politicians, scientists and leaders, and the wealthy pretend to have perfected or are perfecting in modern times to meet a present no one in the past could ever comprehend as their rotten invention, or hierarchically; organized, pyramid scam. So the affluent in society are ladder climbers. Aside from pretension what they have is not a norm, or correct standard, or higher class of human beings, to be emulated, imitated as real influences in society, they are not cultured or anything near being able to go about exhibiting higher ethics, and morals, and so called right norms to be emulated throughout society by those at the lower levels of their social and governmental pyramid scams at all. A normal self, family and nation, is not a reality it is an idealistic invention of ancient morons who if they were alive today would all be in jail or mental hospitals because they were the original terrorists in every major traditional religion on earth.

Their religions are introducing most of the political terrorists seeking power to convert the masses. Rabid extremists you see on earth in our governments, and other nations governments, and those blowing up things all over our beautiful earth right now… Our planet is on fire because our religions teach the same thing our insane leaders, bigots similar to all those leaders in the past in our divisive traditional religions factually believe in ancient original terrorists like Abraham, Noah, Moses, who all spread the lies about Adam and Eve and the prophets, and cultist seers, who were seeing their own insanity, schizophrenia, violence, malice, greed, power mad visions not any particular invented gods visions, demands, rules, or desires for them to go around getting lost in deserts, inventing commandments, and controlling their creations lives forevermore in any pyramid scam or similar hierarchy or monarchy, empire, or religious republic . . .

We cannot ever be normal without being reasonable, and seeking what we believe is attainable by anyone at the bottom, or top of any society? Imitating, emulating anyone’s asserted true values, in that society is seeking the unattainable solidifying the disguise, of the naked king, or uppity fake pretending snobby rich old, or newly wealthy, allegedly higher, or royal class families. The illusion is perpetrated by most everyone in the illusion trying to be perfect, or normal not inquire into self projection from memorial duality. Creativity and normalcy, perfection are projected ideals of normalcy, so called sanity, traditional wisdom, skillful invention, and genetic talent that also includes the physical appearance, calculative skills, and memory. All biological attributes that help one rise in society are not real positive virtues that include creativity. Joy and the freedom to inquire, criticize, and doubt and question. Fitting in and climbing ladders with innate talents, is more like polar opposites to psychological freedom that helps us see what we are climbing up in? All the pyramid scams, hierarchies are invented imitated causes of insanity in mankind. They were invented by the most insane in ancient times. Those ancient superstitious beasts, organizing mankind in pyramid scams were never the producers of human sanity, wisdom,a living intelligence, awareness or originality. One has nothing to do with the other. They are both life in two different realities. One was invented. Can you guess which one most of us are living in?

What is our norm is for us to find out? Is it from the past, or is it new and original? Ponder on this for yourselves. How could any pyramid scam on earth, ever allow money or truth to flow down to those on the bottom? When they are all struggling for their whole lives for pennies, to keep those at the top extremely wealthy, healthy and powerful? Their taxes, tithes go to keep the white collared costumed leaders well kept,living in splendor, while the poor starve, struggle or die in wars? How can these terrible habits of organizing people in pyramid scams, ever permanently survive as a national, or traditional religious pyramid scam? The programming and conditioning of those in their cults to fit in to what they say is a standard, or a double standard for the poor and those at the top or a different norm for our leaders is egregious and vile and a manmade evil. See to even in the laws we are told we must all obey the leaders generally get a pass or use a different set of words, for taking a bribe themselves? Most obviously think the laws were not invented for them because they believe themselves to be, above all the laws of the land. They are illusory supremacists, not principled moral ethical ideologists. Supreme authorities are not subjected to the same laws as everyone else in their corrupt nations as them. Pay for play, pray for justice and peace? Those two insane ways to organize are the most egregious horrible bestial ways to organize people in the entire world in another pyramid scam. What do you think about that?

[jmsaario]

There’s a lot to unpack here. The inquiry must begin by asking whether these societal structures, hierarchies, and norms arise naturally or are sustained by the movement of thought. Thought by its nature, fragments and seeks security in patterns, ideals, and authority. These structures may appear to bring order, but do they not perpetuate division, conflict, and suffering?

The “pyramid scams” described are not just external systems but extensions of the psychological hierarchies within us. The division between “higher” and “lower,” between “normal” and “abnormal,” is mirrored in our own thinking patterns. Unless this inner structure of division is understood in ourselves, can external change ever have meaning?

Instead of asking how these (external) systems can change, can we inquire into whether the very process of seeking ideals, authority, or societal norms is itself the root of disorder?

[Dano]

I understand the wisdom in your question. Our thought cannot be reasonably abandoned. All thought should not ever be abandoned because no one can live without technical thought without becoming a vegetable in life. For thirty or forty years I have been saying there are two kinds of thought. One works and has efficacy and the other does not. See to ponder this too. Psychological authorities cannot ever work to help anyone on earth think for themselves. See to .even if morons claim superstition works, faith works, hope works and science does not? . It is up to each human being on earth to sift the false from the true, and the true and the false in their own brains, and hearts and minds in awareness. Ponder on these things for yourselves Let the sifting start in inquiry why believe it will not if it has not in ourselves? What else does anyone think will work if they believe Inquiry, is not a sane action for themselves? No one on earth can teach something unnatural to the brain in the form of any superstitious belief about the possible in life for themselves, without themselves having a pre-programmed mind? We are all conditioned and there is no replacement for thought that works only an end to thought that has no real efficacy in life, none at all any more valuable than a placebo.in medicine or a self projection. Let us look at what people might say. You are the sifter why sift? You are on this shore why inquire? .Do you see the trick thought invented to control us and others? How can we start inquiring from where we are not? Not without starting from where we are in duality projecting another shore, or putting our heads in the imaginary clouds mankind’s ancient superstition invented?

[jmsaario]

These observations and questions reflect a depth of thought that touches upon something essential and deeply relevant: the responsibility of each individual to inquire deeply into their own life and mind.

Indeed, no external authority or system can provide the clarity we seek. Can we begin by questioning whether the framework of duality (true versus false, useful versus useless) is itself a product of thought? If so, does starting from this division already confine inquiry within the limitations of the mind that created it?

Inquiry, in its most fundamental sense, is perhaps the central essence of what Krishnamurti pointed toward. It is not about adopting conclusions, systems, or even the statements he made, but about awakening the capacity for direct observation and exploration.

Thinking together, as Bohm emphasized, is not about asserting one’s own perspective or adhering to another’s but about moving beyond division to uncover truth in relationship and dialogue. The process is not an outcome but a living, shared action which must be nurtured from inner intention for wholeness and harmony.

Inquiry is not an analysis of what has already been thought but a fresh movement into what is actual. When this inquiry is alive, without effort, attachment or direction, does it not reveal a clarity that transcends the need for dichotomies, comparisons, or conclusions?

Looking and staying with the question.

[fraggle]

@jmsaario

The inquiry must begin by asking whether these societal structures, hierarchies, and norms arise naturally or are sustained by the movement of thought.

If I may ask, what would the naturally occurring social structures, hierarchies and norms look like?

[jmsaario]

Perhaps the deeper inquiry is to observe the structures as they are now, to understand their roots, and to see whether they arise from necessity or are merely the product of conditioned thinking. Without such clarity, any concept becomes just another abstraction, reinforcing the very patterns we seek to question.

[Dano]

I agree. If we knew what the new looks like before we are beyond the addiction of organizing in pyramids and hierarchies it would not be new? Would it to you?