And to create a new world, in which there is no war, no organized religion and all that ? A world in which there is compassion and love ?
That would be lovely.
In order to address this statement, we need to look at 2 aspects of it (at least)
-
If I am a confused and greedy entity, what I dream of and desire is obviously a continuation of what I am (the self wants selfishly - the stupid personâs desires are necessarily stupid)
-
If I donât care what happens, how can there be war or the need for religion?
What do you mean by if I donât care what happens, if I may ask?
If I am not the central character of this universe, then there is no need for conflict.
If what I want is not the be all and end all of the law, then there is a chance for love.
Choiceless awareness is not about what I know and want - it is freedom from that
1 Like
Hi mac,
It is so easy to refute this doubt, because after all the work that K did on himself, he continued to rail against the greed, the selfishness, the irresponsibility, the dishonesty, the violence, the hate, anger, fear, etc., and the lack of compassion (love), kindness, and peacefulness of everyone. He even called his audience a ârummyâ crowd quite a few times to their facesâŚ(which means âdisingenuousâ, from the urban dictionary if I recall) !!!
From Kâs life, we have a good idea that he wasnât anything horrid, as mentioned in the previous paragraph. On the contrary, he worked to heal others, giving generously of himself, living an impeccable life - was loving, peaceful, humble, and incredible consistent, etc.
He also encouraged his students on one occasion to do some volunteer work to âhelpâ (not psychological help) some villagers to make their load easier.
The thing is that the further one goes on the work on oneself, the more one âdiscoversâ reality as it is⌠all the while dissolving all of oneâs conditioning. So, obviously, there is less projection. So, what I am saying is that as long as oneâs conditioning remains, we contribute unconsciously to all the horrors of the world, and that is what it means to say: âI am the world and the world is me.â Thus, the state of the world is our responsibility. Got it???
[quote=âcharleycannuck, post:145, topic:1293â]
Your argument seems to be that enlightened folk, or people who see clearly, like K, say that the world is greedy, selfish, dishonest and confused. So it follows that if I feel that the world (out there) is greedy, selfish etc⌠this means that I too am seeing the world clearly.
If this is your argument, Iâm not sure it does really mean that we all see the world clearly - why am I still confused if I am seeing the world clearly? If I am seeing the world clearly, why am I still greedy and dishonest?
As for encouraging everyone to be helpful, the fact of our being the cause of violence & confusion, and turning the lamp inwards, we are in agreement.
We donât âsee the world clearlyâ. I donât see the big picture, the âimmensityâ as K called it. We are part of something here that we donât understand, this activity in us and around us that we call âlifeââŚdoes it have a function that we canât even imagine? The questioning creates the suffering and we canât stop questioning. Something in us NEEDS to know and yet we see that we canât know. The âmessengersâ bring us the idea of a possible âenlightenmentâ that will take away the suffering, the confusion. How can we NOT look into that?
Friends sorry to interfere, I faced a situation while explaining the topic of freedom from known to my friend. The context is as follows,
My friend had an opinion that storing more information might cause more interference and result in a lack of freedom. I said him that recording is a natural phenomenon in which there is no room for control. I have said that the brain keeps recording from birth to death.
Why the mind is feeling afraid to store information? or am I wrong?
If someone had gone through this kind of feeling, please throw some light on this aspect.
Hey Mac,
One is skeptical as to most people seeing the world around them clearly. People like to think/feel that they see the world as it is, but that just isnât so. Were it to be true, people would realize that their very nature/character determines how the world is, but that just isnât how people see the world, is it?
and
Choice leads to confusion. It clearly indicates that one is choosing, as in âI chooseâ. This behaviour is clearly the result of conditioning, as in the idea of free will, clearly indoctrinated into most people. So, one sees very clearly that so many people choose some method of meditation as well, and then believing that what they are doing is actually meditation, when it isnât. One has also seen that most people who are âinto Kâ choosing to spend an awful lot of energy and time trying to figure out how to keep maintaining thought by believing that if only one could find a so-called legitimate and viable working exercise of thought (i.e. âputting thought in its right placeâ, etc.) that all would be well. However, all one can see in the world is that everyone uses thought to some measure or other, and the world is in the mess that it is in because of that. And this is what it means to see clearly.
If one actually saw clearly, one would be horrified and fed up with the state of oneself; one would see that all of that is the result of conditioning and all of that would have to go.
Our entire system of life is based on the idea of infinite growth (whether in the East or in the West) - the basis of capitalism, whether the âdemocraticâ capitalism, or the âcommunistâ capitalism, all of which is the result of incorrect action - invented by thought. In the face of the fact that all of the worldâs resources are being used up, and that such behaviour is the cause of the present endemic⌠as well as climate change⌠inflation⌠exploitation⌠etc. etc.
Looks like I got the argument completely wrong - looking again when you say that it is âeasy to refute this doubtâ you donât actually say which side of the argument you come down on.
???!!?? Because it has become confused by some of the information already stored.
The problem is not memory - it is believing that what I know is actually true.
(what I know is at best a useful predictive model)
Dear Mac,
I had to laugh when reading the above. Charley is not about taking âsidesâ⌠lol Too funny. Clarity demands seeing that there are no sides. Taking sides is the illusion of the consequence of thought - playing with things that arenât real, right? Clarity is such that it demands the negation of such activity, right? And everyone on this site is and must be concerned with the discovery of reality, which is the whole point of why one is on this site.
The binary system that defines our society (duality) is part and parcel of the problem, right??
Sorry, I donât see why. Why is the binary system part of the problem?
Just to help you see why I am confused :
-
electronics and computer hardware use binary language (on/off) because it it so simple and efficient.
-
many statements of fact are actually either true or false
-
the rather fashionable idea that we all have our own truth is obviously based on the mistaken idea that delusions or opinions are somehow âtruthâ
Surely the problem we face is not a thing âout thereâ (the binary system, capitalism, religion, wokism etc) - rather it is our relationship to what we see. Our belief that we see reality.
Mac or Doug (not sure how to address you),
Choice always involves picking and choosing what one thinks or feels is good for oneself. What if all choice is based on thought? It is,⌠and you sense (even partially - intellectually) that is true⌠Have you even considered that?
What kind of a world are we making when the very chips that are needed to make computers are from resources that are being depleted, as well as the fact that the manufacture of these chips are contributing to a toxic environment - pollution.
Take Elon Musk, and his self-driving car. It is based on a super-computer model, a model patterned after the human brain (thought), and it still has accidents, right? Musk has chosen this type (computer-based system) because it is supposedly cost-efficient (⌠read ⌠profitable!), right? There are alternatives, such as Lidar, which doesnât seek to replace the human brain, but basically to enhance the driving skill - in other word, to make a better driver. However, who on earth really needs all this stuff, right? Itâs not a real need, right? Advertising has sold everyone a false bill of goods, something that that is part and parcel of capitalism, which encourages choice instead of right action. The fact that it is all moving to destroy this planet is completely ignored.
The average consumer is faced with the decision to choose between various alternatives: âYes, I like that one; no, that one isnât good.â, right? We are all taught in school from childhood onwards that some facts are either true or false; so, do you see that that is all conditioning, right? But what if all of that was all part of the wrong-turn? What if all of that was the wrong approach? Iâm saying it is !!!
When younger, was forced to study a few computer languages (was studying physics). We were all bored silly by it all. So, we all (the honours physics group 
) used the special computer room reserved for us just to play star wars games⌠right up until the computer guy found out and we were all banned from that room, lol. What a strange activity to model our lives on how a computer works, right? Donât you see the irony of that? Have you ever tried to talk with an IT guy? Itâs like talking to a machine⌠So, is that what everyone wants to become, a machine? That is the binary way of thinking, isnât it? right? So, it all comes down to success/failure - that too is the binary way of thinking, isnât it as well?
So, what I am saying is that we donât really have a relationship with reality, we have an arrangement (an attachment) with our idea about reality, with our conditioning about reality⌠and that is why we donât see clearly⌠There, Charley discovered something, lol !!! It is also why someone could end up being confused. Unconsciously, they are choosing âyesâ / ânoâ.
That is also why K stressed from the outset, that one starts with looking at what is going on in the world around us, and then slowly back and forth, there is the seeing of what is happening inside.
What does it take to come out of confusion, happening due to the information recorded in the brain?
Why the mind is feeling afraid because of these beliefs? What happens if the mind just stays with what it has perceived?
Clarity is the remedy for confusion - seeing that my confusion is due to my belief that my confusion is clarity - seeing that my confusion is due to believing in confusing, contradictory and fallacious ideas - is due to thinking that my thoughts/beliefs are true (a true reflection of reality)
The remedy for confusion is to realise that my embodiment of confusion is bound to be confusing. The remedy for confusion is to see what I am.
It is already afraid - I am fear - I hold on to my beliefs because I hope that my knowledge will protect me and make me strong and intelligent.
Can it? Or has fear already interpreted the perception? Why do you want to stay with the perception? Is it because you want to escape fear?
Hello Douglas. So you are saying that we are deluded - we are confused, but we think weâre not confused and can see clearly. My question is this - are there not moments of clarity which are clearly distinguishable from the usual, confused state?
Like what? Are you thinking of any particular moments?
PS - I like the statement of âthought in its right placeâ - but what would that be do you think?
It could be any situation where there is clear seeing and action rather than action that comes from the confusion of thought. A response in a conversation can show that you have been listening closely, understood and responded with clarity. Other times, communication is poor because weâre not really listening and respond from a fixed position using past knowledge. âThought in its right placeâ? - I donât know, but itâs easy to become a bit obsessed with thought. We can respond, as in the situation I described above, where thought is being used to listen and respond but weâre not sliding into a fixed position by thinking and using a pool of past knowledge. Does any of this make sense?
1 Like
I think these are some good questions posed by you.
I see that I cannot control the mind when it is recording continuously through all senses. I was thinking, how it feels like? when there is only perception without any interference of recorded information.
What does it take to come out of our belief?