I had a teacher who said it’s very beneficial to stop the world, step out of our habitual flow a few times a day. Needn’t be long, a few seconds might do. Thing is, the flow wants to keep flowing! It doesn’t want to be stopped, even for a few seconds! It’s like mental inertia: objects in motion resist change to that motion.
Nobody,
Considering that the topic is Krishnamurti-style, how does one reconcile what K said: The observer is the observed, with saying: "I can quite easily see that these objects are not me… ?? Also, in saying what you said, are you not increasing the separation and division of what is inside of you and that which is observing??
In relation to that, what can be seen is that any objection to what is going on in the brain is thought against thought : conflict. But if there is ‘listening’ to whatever is taking place, there is no conflict.
No objection = no collision.
By definition, No. The presence of “me” is what distorts perception.
So the question is, How much of the “person” is “me”? If the person survives the transformation, what exactly does not? Unless the brain is keenly aware of “the structure and nature” of its conditioning, the conditioning persists.
Thought against thought will take place if there is no understanding. I do not know exactly what is your intent.
Can you explain it in different way?
We are familiar with “choice” . We are not familiar with “Choice-less” . I think one has to always start with “what is”. Also we are familiar with “unawareness” and so on.
Yeah, most of the time we will be unaware of the situations. It seems to be more challenging to be aware of what is happening inside the mind.
Do you agree?
I’m not good at explaining but,
When I believe that I am separate from my thought, I may object to what Im thinking about i.e., that I am daydreaming, angry, bored, lonely, etc. But since it is known now that the thinker, me is not separate at all from what ‘I’m’ thinking / feeling, that objection is a result of the persistent illusion of a duality and creates psychological “friction” or a ‘resistance’ to what is taking place. On the other hand just ‘listening’, being with, awareness of, what is taking place, is not resisting, cannot be in conflict with, what is going on in the brain / mind.
What happens inside is a constant occupation with the self and it’s insecurities which is fear. Fear of being nothing and empty.
@sivaram was entirely correct in mentioning being “aware of what is happening inside the mind” being more challenging.
In keeping with the topic “Krishnamurti style”, K suggested that the only way to awaken intelligence is firstly to be aware of ‘what is’ happening outward, in other words, in the world around oneself. Then, one can begin to be aware of ‘what is’ happening inward. Both of these processes in tandem will awaken intelligence, the ability to read between the lines, the see in a paragraph (at a glance) the intention of the speaker/writer. It is also intelligence that will enable one to live in this very brutal and uncaring and selfish world. Everyone on this site is coming from different backgrounds. Some are just beginning in their awakening and some are quite a bit further along, and so understand much more. Everyone who is on this site has a right to be here as long as they are respectful of the rights of everyone to be on this site who is really interested in K. You see, choiceless awareness implies not coming to a conclusion, a condemnation, a decision, a choice. So, choiceless awareness is also something which can easily be seen in that one can practice outward, in the way that one responds to a post. So, one can easily see who has benefited from K’s words, and who is just playing with words - those who are serious are only interested in responding to the content of what someone else posts. And there are also those who are unable to appreciate and enjoy the benefit of what K said - they bypass/ignore the content of a post, and centre in on demeaning and trashing the author of the post. It is indeed more challenging to be aware of ‘what is’ happening inward, while reading and responding to any post.
Try this. Sit in a relaxed manner and just observe what is happening within/to you from top to down. You’re already in a choiceless state.
Now the challenge would be to extend it while going through your life. That’s certainly not easy but you’ve already got the hang of this awareness and it’s just a question of extending it which you should be able to get after a little trial and error and perhaps a few falls.
Thing is, the awareness you describe is choiceful in that you do something (sit, observe) to get somewhere (choiceless awareness). Which is perfectly fine, just not the version of Krishnamurti’s choiceless awareness I was referring to: awareness without any trace of choice all the way through, from beginning to end.
The’ sitting’ was just an example. You could stand, sleep whatever is ok with you. The choicelessness is about not picking and choosing what you observe, whether pleasant or unpleasant and not about ‘sitting, observing’ etc.
There are no different 'versions’ of awareness.
I understand. I’m referring to the ‘larger’ view of choicelessness that Krishnamurti spoke of:
He did not offer any method to achieve such awareness; in his view application of technique cannot possibly evolve into, or result in, true choicelessness – just as unceasing application of effort leads to illusory effortlessness, in reality the action of habit. Additionally, in his opinion all methods introduce potential or actual conflict, generated by the practitioner’s efforts to comply. According to this analysis, all practices towards achieving choiceless awareness have the opposite effect: they inhibit its action in the present by treating it as a future, premeditated result, and moreover one that is conditioned by the practitioner’s implied or expressed expectations.
Hi charley, 
Thanks for sharing your insights. I know that I do not know everything and I have joined this forum for understanding the nature of mind. I request everyone to rise a point if they are not clear such that the discussion will go meaningful.
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Seem like you are aware of things happening inside. I my case I am not aware of things for most of the time but sometimes I do.
I do not know why should I fear the emptiness of my mind.
Can you explain in what sense you are talking about emptiness?
K has been shouting over the rooftops for over 70 years… Watch yourself, observe yourself, listen to yourself etc.
So as per you K has an intention to observe himself to arrive at a choiceless awareness state which is pretty absurd.
You seem to have a fanciful idea of some exalted state of mind when referring to Choiceless awareness.
It doesn’t work that way.
Choicelessness is about observing yourself irrespective of what you are faced with.
I’m just trying to find out if total choicelessness, from the first to the last step, which Krishnamurti passionately spoke of over and over, is something that can happen to me. So not only choicelessness while being aware as you describe, but choicelessness in the entire process, which means: no path, no intention, no motive, no goal, no technique, no method, no practice. Without path, intention, goal, motive, what’s left?
NOTHING
That is the best way I suppose. Such that there will be no chattering, no delusions, no attachments, and nothing.
I do not know how long this understanding holds inside me.
Things as they are … ?