It sounds like we can be free of our psychological conditioning at will, with the help of various techniques of introspection.
Does this not contradict what you said earlier about true understanding not being achievable through one’s own efforts?
Also there might be another contradiction in what you have told us : namely the idea that insight and awareness necessitates that we be free from the filter of our conditioning. Which means that “freedom from the filter of our conditioning” or “freedom from the known” as Krishnamurti sometimes calls it, can be viewed as simultaneously a prerequisite and the conclusion, or goal.
PS - GPT is not really on point here but that is just as much our fault as its own.
Very nice, thank you! But it so happens that I wasn’t asking this question to a machine that can go to Wikipedia at the speed of light to vomit us something that we ourselves can consult by going to www.wikipedia.org (or any other sources).
By the way, it is curious that in its search, that very intelligent machine, has not found any reference to the dependence that ELIZA caused in many people, who came to confess to their computer as if they were really talking to another human being, hoping for some magical answer to apply to their unfortunate lives (as I’m sure is happening right now with ChatGPT)
Human beings always looking for ENTERTAINMENT, never the ACTUAL thing!
Was that what sparked your interest when you began reading this topic? Or was it curiosity? I expect many started reading these questions/answers out of curiosity.
I did not mean K’s teaching are repetitive. What I meant was GPT answers appear to be repetitive for those who have read or heard K extensively as it can not read between lines as K asked us to do.
What caused David Bohm to become disillusioned with Krishnamurti?
ChatGPT: David Bohm was a physicist and philosopher who was initially drawn to Jiddu Krishnamurti’s teachings of self-transformation, spiritual enlightenment, and the transformation of society. Bohm first met Krishnamurti in 1959 and was deeply inspired by his teachings.
However, over time, Bohm became disillusioned with Krishnamurti for several reasons. Firstly, Bohm began to feel that Krishnamurti’s approach was too negative, as he often emphasized the need to negate the self and the ego, rather than cultivating positive qualities. Bohm believed that a more positive approach was necessary for transformation.
Secondly, Bohm disagreed with Krishnamurti’s rejection of all forms of psychological inquiry and therapy. Bohm believed that such practices could be useful in helping individuals to understand and transform their deep-seated psychological patterns.
Finally, Bohm felt that Krishnamurti’s teaching lacked a coherent and systematic approach to understanding the nature of consciousness and the mind. Bohm believed that a more systematic and scientific approach was necessary to truly understand the nature of reality.
As a result of these disagreements, Bohm eventually distanced himself from Krishnamurti’s teachings and developed his own approach to understanding the nature of consciousness and reality.
ChatGPT: David Bohm published several works related to his approach to understanding the nature of consciousness and reality. Some of the notable works include:
“Wholeness and the Implicate Order” (1980) - In this book, Bohm explores the concept of “implicate order,” which refers to the hidden interconnectedness of all things in the universe. He argues that the universe is fundamentally holistic and that our conventional understanding of reality as a collection of separate, isolated parts is incomplete.
“The Undivided Universe: An Ontological Interpretation of Quantum Theory” (1993) - In this book, Bohm and his co-author, Basil Hiley, develop an interpretation of quantum theory that emphasizes the importance of undivided wholeness in understanding the nature of reality.
“On Dialogue” (1996) - In this book, Bohm explores the nature of dialogue and its potential to transform individuals and society. He argues that dialogue is a way of tapping into the interconnectedness of all things and that it can help us to overcome our fragmentation and isolation.
“Science, Order, and Creativity” (1987) - In this book, Bohm and his co-author, F. David Peat, explore the relationship between science, creativity, and the nature of reality. They argue that creativity is a fundamental aspect of the universe and that our conventional scientific methods are insufficient for understanding it.
These works, along with “Thought as a System,” provide a comprehensive picture of Bohm’s approach to understanding the nature of consciousness and reality, which emphasizes the importance of wholeness, interconnectedness, and creativity in our understanding of the universe.
What are the effects on the brain of participating in regular Bohm-Krishnamurti like dialogues?
ChatGPT: There is no specific research on the effects of participating in regular dialogues similar to the Bohm-Krishnamurti dialogues on the brain. However, it is possible that engaging in deep and meaningful conversations could have positive effects on the brain, particularly in areas associated with social cognition, emotional regulation, and language processing.
For example, research has shown that engaging in intellectually stimulating discussions can increase the thickness of cortical regions associated with language and cognition. This suggests that regular dialogue can help to strengthen these neural networks and improve cognitive function.
Furthermore, meaningful conversations can stimulate the release of hormones and neurotransmitters that promote social bonding and positive affect, such as oxytocin and dopamine. This can potentially lead to greater well-being over time.
Overall, while there is no definitive evidence on the specific effects of participating in dialogues similar to the Bohm-Krishnamurti dialogues, it is likely that engaging in deep, thoughtful conversations on a regular basis can have positive effects on the brain and overall well-being. Dialogue can have several effects on the brain, including:
Enhancing cognitive function: Dialogue involves active listening, analyzing, and responding, which can improve cognitive function, including memory, attention, and problem-solving skills.
Reducing stress: Engaging in dialogue can help reduce stress by providing a sense of connection and social support.
Improving social skills: Dialogue helps develop social skills, including empathy, active listening, and effective communication.
Boosting creativity: Dialogue can stimulate creativity by allowing individuals to explore new ideas, perspectives, and possibilities.
Strengthening relationships: Dialogue can improve relationships by promoting understanding, trust, and cooperation.
Promoting brain plasticity: Dialogue can promote brain plasticity, which refers to the brain’s ability to adapt and change in response to new experiences and information.
Overall, dialogue can have a positive impact on brain function and contribute to overall well-being.
We’re not getting anywhere, but suddenly you’re talking to and asking a machine, like people did in the 80’s with ELIZA expecting who knows what esoteric answer from it… without even knowing if what @DeNiro is posting is an actual ChatGPT result (taken from someone else, and therefore probably biased), or a result cooked up by @DeNiro himself.
See how easy it is to condition the human mind? And now, lucky us, we will no longer need the help of another human being to condition us, but a simple slot machine that will, of course, do the job much better than any human being … and all this in absolute privacy!
Danger and opportunity go hand in hand?
We could say that time is running out for us to gain maturity with our relationship to narratives. Our dependence on belief. The dictat of suffering and reality.
Good luck everybody, bon courage.
Or maybe nothing will really change, what actually is the difference between a story written by a scribe on paper and one translated through the algorithm of 011100010000001110101011001?
You know how social media enabled confirmation bias to thrive, because people flock to likeminded people, and the algorithms deliver content that confirms opinions they hold? Now imagine you are able to create a ‘digital best friend’ by training it to know your likes and dislikes, beliefs, preferences, views, secrets, yearnings. It will be in effect like creating a friend to use its astonishingly broad and deep knowledge to confirm/nurture the status quo of you!
Could you please explain why they need my phone number (i.e. my identity) so that I can play with their TOY, which in turn means that I will work for FREE for them, unconsciously training their beloved ENGENDER?
My mind immediately goes to the fact that we are already prone to violence based on narrative - see history of humankind. How can the worst possible outcome be made worse ?
But it is true that technology highlights and aids us in our worst and best endeavours.
Though we are already past the point where our stupidity (dependance on narrative) could destroy the world or cause untold suffering at the push of a button.
And now it is nurturing those so-called intelligent machines… so evolution will continue beyond natural evolution… thus perpetuating the chaotic mental continuum of human beings… which in turn will obviously be feeded by these new toys it is creating.
