ChatGPT on Krishnamurti

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Q: External, motivated…

K: That’s it. I would consider all those are artificial enforcements in order to induce silence.

PJ: That is, if you look at a mountain you get silence.

K: Ah, wait no. Wait, wait. When you look at a mountain what takes place? By the greatness, by the beauty, by the grandeur of the mountain, that absorbs you and makes you silent. That is still artificial.

PJ: But that is only nature. These others…

K: Like a child, given a good toy, is absorbed by the toy and for the time being, till it breaks down, he is very quiet. I would consider all those, any form of inducement to silence, to bring about silence, is artificial - for K.

Q: The question starts with a motive.

K: I am saying the motive too, motive is artificial.

Q: Bringing about silence is an accidental…

K: I want to find out, sir, whether it is accidental or is there a natural way, without inducement, without motive, without direction, without etc., etc., etc.

Q: Sir, in looking at a mountain, though it is a non-duality experience, even then you say it is not silence.

K: I wouldn’t call it silence. Because the thing is so great, for the time being that greatness knocks your…

Q: The absence of the ‘me’ is there, but the absence of the ‘me’ is not at the conscious level, but you say is it there.

K: It is there.

Q: How?

K: Look, you see a marvellous picture, a marvellous sunset, an enormous chain of mountains, and it’s like the toy with a child. That greatness knocks out the ‘me’ for the moment and the mind becomes silent. This is… you experiment with it.

Q: Yes, sir, but you say that is not silence.

K: I wouldn’t call that silence because the mountain, the sunset, the beauty of something takes for the moment - the ‘me’ is pushed aside. And the moment that’s gone, I’m back to my chattering or whatever it is. So, at least I want to be clear that any artificial, with a motive, a directional, seems to K that it’s a distortion which will not bring about the depth of silence - in which is included practices, disciplines, controls, identification with the greater and thereby making myself quiet, and so on and so on, so on. Then I ask myself what is the necessity of silence? If it has no motive, would I ask that question?

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Continuing what @Inquiry has said above (and what @Dev has quoted), it would be interesting to get GPT’s take on this question, if we can somehow manage to ask it properly/clearly : being the question of

What comes first, insight or awareness?
The question has to do with the efforts of the confused person necessarily only leading further along the path of confusion; even if they are making the effort of awareness. And thus we must ask whether some insight into the process of self is actually necessary for awareness to have any meaning.

PS - I think we can put the question more clearly. (and hopefully get GPT to blow a gasket and say : its a Paradox folks!)

PPS - actually @DeNiro you can just ask the question in italics if you like - I’ll follow up with further questions if need be. GPT is clear that this a line of questioning to do with K’s teachings?

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image ChatGPT: Regarding Krishnamurti’s statement that there is no way, method, technique or path to truth, and that practicing such methods only leads to the belief that one has achieved the sought-after result, or that the practice is a waste of energy, it is important to note that this is his perspective and interpretation of truth-seeking. Others may have different perspectives and may find value in the practice of certain techniques or paths.

It is also important to note that Krishnamurti’s teachings emphasize the importance of self-inquiry and personal exploration in the search for truth, rather than blindly following the teachings or practices of others. His teachings often challenge traditional beliefs and ideologies, and encourage individuals to question their own assumptions and conditioning.

Ultimately, whether or not one agrees with Krishnamurti’s perspective on truth-seeking and the value of methods or techniques is a personal choice and depends on individual beliefs and experiences.

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image ChatGPT: Thank you for providing additional context to your earlier statement, which was a quote from Jiddu Krishnamurti. It seems that in this passage, Krishnamurti is discussing the idea of silence, and how certain practices or techniques aimed at achieving silence can be a distortion of the experience.

Krishnamurti suggests that when we experience the beauty of something like a mountain or a sunset, the “me” or the sense of self is pushed aside, allowing us to briefly experience a state of silence. However, this state is temporary, and we soon return to our normal mental chatter.

Krishnamurti goes on to suggest that any artificial practice aimed at achieving silence, whether it involves discipline, control, or identification with something greater, is a distortion of the experience and will not lead to the depth of silence that we seek. Instead, Krishnamurti seems to suggest that the experience of silence is something that cannot be achieved through effort or direction, but rather arises spontaneously when we are free of motives and expectations.

You ask what the necessity of silence is, and whether you would even ask this question if there were no motive. It seems that Krishnamurti would suggest that the true necessity of silence is not something that can be articulated or explained, but rather something that is experienced directly, beyond the limitations of language and thought.

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image ChatGPT: Krishnamurti’s teachings emphasize the importance of self-inquiry and awareness in the process of understanding oneself and the nature of reality. He suggests that insight and awareness are interrelated, and that both are necessary for true understanding.

Krishnamurti often spoke about the limitations of effort and striving in the search for truth. He suggested that when we approach self-inquiry with the motive of achieving a particular result, such as greater awareness or insight, we are already caught in a cycle of confusion and limitation. In other words, our efforts to become more aware or gain insight are themselves a form of conditioning, which can prevent us from seeing things clearly.

Instead, Krishnamurti suggested that true awareness and insight arise spontaneously when we are able to observe ourselves and the world around us without the filter of our conditioning. This requires a deep level of self-inquiry and a willingness to question our assumptions and beliefs, without trying to arrive at a predetermined result.

So, in answer to your question, it seems that Krishnamurti would suggest that both insight and awareness are necessary for true understanding, but that they cannot be achieved through effort or striving. Rather, they arise spontaneously when we are able to observe ourselves and the world without the filter of our conditioning, and when we are open to questioning our assumptions and beliefs.

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GPT isn’t open minded, is it…

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Where did K say this?

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image ChatGPT:As an artificial intelligence language model, GPT (Generative Pre-trained Transformer) does not possess beliefs or attitudes that we typically associate with human beings, such as being open-minded or closed-minded. GPT’s responses are generated based on statistical patterns learned from large amounts of text data, and it does not have the ability to hold opinions or form judgments in the same way that humans do. Its responses are purely based on its training data and the prompt it receives. Therefore, the concept of open-mindedness or closed-mindedness is not applicable to GPT as it does not have a personal or subjective viewpoint.

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image ChatGPT: Krishnamurti’s ideas can be found in many of his books and speeches, but the specific quote you mentioned is a common theme in his teachings. Here’s an excerpt from one of his talks:

“True awareness and insight arise spontaneously when we are able to observe ourselves and the world around us without the filter of our conditioning. This means being fully present in the moment and seeing things as they are, rather than through the lens of our past experiences and beliefs. When we can let go of our preconceptions and assumptions, we open ourselves up to new possibilities and deeper understanding.”

This quote is representative of Krishnamurti’s overall philosophy and can be found in various forms throughout his work.

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If the brain can “let go of” its preconceptions and assumptions for a moment, why can’t it let go of them for good? If the brain can “see things as they are” for a moment, an hour, a day, why does it revert to holding and seeing through the filter of its conditioning?

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After going through GPT replies, it seems GPT is limited by its input knoweldege/ data as often pointed out by K about limitation of knowledge. GPT is helpful to those who do not have much exposure to K. But to those who have read or heard K extensively, it appears repetitive.

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image ChatGPT: Letting go of preconceptions and assumptions can be challenging because they are deeply ingrained in our thinking and behavior patterns. These beliefs and biases have been developed over a lifetime of experiences, social conditioning, and cultural influences, and they have become a part of our identity.

Even if we manage to let go of these preconceptions and assumptions for a moment or a day, we may revert to holding onto them because they are familiar and comfortable. Our brains have a natural tendency to seek out patterns and consistency, and our preconceptions and assumptions provide a sense of order and predictability in our lives.

In addition, letting go of our preconceptions and assumptions requires ongoing effort and mindfulness. It’s not a one-time event but a continual process of self-reflection and self-awareness. We need to constantly challenge our assumptions and be open to new experiences and perspectives to prevent ourselves from falling back into old patterns of thinking.

So, while it may be challenging to let go of preconceptions and assumptions for good, it’s possible with ongoing effort and practice. It requires a willingness to be open-minded, curious, and reflective, and a commitment to growth and personal development.

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image ChatGPT: I see what you’re saying. It’s possible that for those who are already very familiar with Krishnamurti’s teachings, some of the concepts and ideas may seem repetitive, especially if they have already spent a significant amount of time studying his work.

However, it’s important to keep in mind that repetition is a common feature of many spiritual or philosophical teachings, as it can be an effective way of helping people to internalize and integrate the teachings into their daily lives.

Additionally, for those who are new to Krishnamurti’s work or are just beginning to explore his teachings, repetition can be beneficial, as it allows them to gradually deepen their understanding and insights over time.

Ultimately, whether or not Krishnamurti’s teachings seem repetitive may depend on the individual’s level of familiarity with his work, as well as their personal preferences and learning style.

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Excellent response by GPT.

So insight and awareness necessitate that we be free from the filter of our conditioning.
What is it that might provoke the filter of our conditioning to fall away, or lose its potency?

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Do you mean “to be prepared for the unknown”? … If so, how does one prepare or take care for something that one doesn’t know at all what it will be like, if I may ask?

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Nope sorry, didn’t mean that. More like : just because you were fine doing stuff 10 times in a row, doesn’t mean nothing bad will ever happen.

And I suppose we prepare for known dangers/problems (when embarking on some adventure) and hope for the best.

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image ChatGPT: The filter of our conditioning can fall away or lose its potency through various means. One way is through introspection and self-reflection, which allows us to become aware of our biases and conditioning. By examining our thoughts, beliefs, and emotions, we can identify patterns that have been ingrained in us and question their validity.

Another way is through exposure to diverse experiences and perspectives. When we engage with people from different backgrounds and cultures, we are exposed to new ways of thinking and living. This exposure can challenge our existing beliefs and help us to develop a broader and more nuanced understanding of the world.

Meditation and mindfulness practices can also be helpful in reducing the influence of our conditioning. By becoming more aware of our thoughts and emotions in the present moment, we can recognize when we are reacting out of habit or conditioning and make a conscious choice to respond differently.

Finally, education and learning can help to broaden our perspectives and challenge our assumptions. By seeking out new information and questioning our beliefs, we can begin to unravel the conditioning that has shaped our worldview.

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In fact, it cannot do otherwise since its knowledge base is based on human knowledge (at least for the moment), therefore incomplete, biased, and contradictory!

By the way, have you heard of ELIZA?

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image ChatGPT: Yes, I have heard of ELIZA. ELIZA was an early natural language processing computer program developed in the 1960s. It was designed to simulate conversation by using a pattern matching and substitution methodology to respond to user inputs in a way that mimicked a psychotherapist.

ELIZA is considered a landmark achievement in the development of AI and natural language processing because it demonstrated that it was possible to create a program that could hold a conversation in natural language. While ELIZA’s conversational abilities were limited and relied heavily on pre-programmed scripts, it paved the way for more sophisticated natural language processing technologies that are used today, such as chatbots and virtual assistants.

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I just wonder if we are so lazy that we need a machine to repeat to us what we have known for a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long time…

Does anyone really think that a machine repeating that will bring about a real change in humanity that those who talked about it before, were not able to produce? Or is it just another entertainment for a lazy mind that prefers to live in illusion and dependence rather than bring about an ACTUAL change in itself?

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