Yes…agreed. It’s the same divided and fragmented consciousness.
‘Thinks’ is the key word here. We cannot think in any other fashion.
Then let’s not use our brains.
So thought is out. There is nothing for the brain to do.
Is that here containing the you referred to by Paul, an actual objective reality outside of his brain? That is to say, the brain is in relationship with something outside of itself, and not simply in relationship with something inside of itself, which is no actual relationship at all.
But I’m beset by many problems in daily living. The ‘house is on fire’ to quote K. And you’re saying that there’s nothing ‘I’ can do? Just let it burn? With myself in it? My family? My loved ones? Or is there something that can be done?
I’m not sure what you are asking. I am here now. But there is no self here in the form of ego. Otherwise I would not come here. That is what I understand by the word ‘you’ as you are using it, but I may have got it wrong. The brain has put together the self, the ego, the ‘you’ – that’s the invention or the imaginary entity that I believe you are talking about. Obviously, the brain is here because without our brains we could not converse. But our brains have very little part to play, if we are really serious about meeting one another. Apart from making sure we are sharing and understanding a common language, what else does the brain need to do?
But the house is not on fire. That’s the problem. A real fire brings immediate action; then you don’t ask what to do.
I am asking, is the biological entity, the brain, with the label or name Paul, inhabiting a space within an actual objective reality, as distinct from an imaginary objective reality, in which another biological entity with the label Dominic, for instance, is existing entirely outside of the brain of Paul, such that they can be a meeting, which is an actual meeting, as part of a we, which is an actual being together?
If you believe you must be alert and attentive, you are practicing being alert and attentive. But if it’s imperative that you must be alert and attentive, you are that.
I’m still no clearer, sorry. Are you asking, ‘Are we separate?’?
I am asking if Paul sees himself as something in a world, alongside others who inhabit that same world, and I am asking whether that landscape with others in it, is seen as being outside of Paul’s brain, or whether there is a sense, as it is happening, that it is all taking place inside of Paul’s brain. That landscape is commonly termed objective reality, so put another way, the question becomes, is the objective reality, or the theatre if you will, the field of view, actual, or imaginary?
The house is not on fire? How so? Let’s say I find out my 18 year old child is using heroin. Are you seriously saying there’s not flames engulfing my house? And I may, in fact, act… I may yell and scream at them…threatening punishment…but it’s still a conditioned reaction most likely…an action from division. Or since they don’t like being screamed at, they run out and don’t come back for days. I turn to drink to numb my pain and my fear.
And these scenarios, painful horrible… aren’t they just the result of the brain’s conditioning? Dependance on another for one’s security? The feeling of possession and responsibility for how another person ‘turns out’? And the feeling of righteousness when I turn to drugs, or whatever, to ease my ‘pain’?
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Possession? Well that may in fact be present, but it’s not the cause of pain when a loved one is suffering. It’s a natural response to feel pain when a loved on is in pain, isn’t it? I don’t want my son or daughter to suffer…or to O.D. on heroin. I’m not made of stone, for God’s sake. A human suffers when their child suffers, no? Or even a stranger, no? When I see newsreels of the Holocaust I feel pain. Do you see this as only conditioning. If so, I would definitely disagree. There’s no sense of possession involved in this suffering. I don’t know the poor Jews or gypsies who were sent to the gas chambers. Forgive me if I’m missing your point here, but I think we’re discussion different issues. The post I was responding to concerned the ‘house’ being ‘on fire’
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A "human suffers " psychologically when they are ‘conditioned’. A ‘conditioned’ human brain tortures and kills. A brain that isn’t conditioned doesn’t ‘suffer’, it is free. The ‘conditioned’ brain is responsible for what happened with the nazis and jews and gypsies…we are responsible for all that and more.
OK…so if you were an African back in the 17th century and someone captured your child to be sold into slavery, you’d feel nothing unless you were conditioned? K. passed out and was unconscious for 2 days when his brother died of TB.
What did you feel when you did that? Just more money, more security, more success?
What may require consideration here is: one brain can be speaking Mandarin and consider all brains speak Mandarin, while another brain can be speaking Japanese and think all brains speak Japanese. Then each brain can consider there is only the one true objective reality, which is actual, and that it is in it, along with all the others, and the notion that reality is imaginary never considered, because it is too unsettling. The question the brain needs to ask itself is, if it is in the one true reality, which is actual, why is it, that it cannot communicate with any of the figures in its landscape about those matters it considers to be critical?
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Who cares what I think? I don’t. I can imagine all sorts of nonsense.