Zazen

Just back from a few days of self torture at a zen retreat (never again! as I always say)

The 2 things the abbot said (in French) that I quite liked were approximately:

“Zazen is not a self-improvement program. It is the gift of self to the universe.”

“Turn the light inwards, towards yourself. But don’t get caught in your own preoccupations, don’t withdraw from the world”

My preoccupations are just one of the many tiny things that arise in an endless space we call awareness or love. When we feel our own pain with love, we are open to the pain of all beings.

Why do self-centered brains thing they know what love it?

By “love” I think we are pointing at selflessness, in the sense of : not being under the authority of what I believe/know.

A lack of reactive knowing, non-resistance, which in meditation comes from noticing one’s movement against (or for) reality - noticing one’s feelings towards the contents of our consciousness.

Yes, I think so, too, but I don’t know what selflessness actually is, so I can’t talk about love.

Do you think you know what love is because you believe you can imagine selflessness?

If selflessness is not imagining anything, why does the compulsively imagining brain believe it can imagine not imagining?

I’m not sure we should be so obsessed with what we know or imagine about love.

Isn’t the authority of the known based exactly upon that very obsession?

What I believe about love, or your belief about what I believe, and the reactions that these beliefs produce is what needs to be seen.
Can we see that we are behaving mechanically? Lashing out like (emotionally) wounded animals fighting for our lives?

My (or your) preoccupations seem like they are the whole of existence, is it not possible to notice the space around them - that they appear and dissapear if given less importance?

I’m sure I know nothing about selflessness and love, and that those of us who presume to know anything about love are full of themselves.

Can we see that we are behaving mechanically? Lashing out like (emotionally) wounded animals fighting for our lives?

Of course.

My (or your) preoccupations seem like they are the whole of existence, is it not possible to notice the space around them - that they appear and dissapear if given less importance?

As long as I decide, choose, what’s of most serious concern, I am all that matters.
So if I think I know what love is, I am God.

If I confuse what I see and know for truth, I am confusing my projections with the truth.

If I confuse my reality with the truth, then my reality has total authority.

And by imposing my reality upon others, I am acting like an angry, warring god.

Awareness does not necessarily imply choice - as choice arises, this too becomes an opportunity to see ourself at work, to see both “space” and the “things” within the space.
Yes we are conditioned to latch on to (“choose”) and be engulfed by the known (eg. my pain, my dogma and other things) - is it possible to not react mechanically (do what must be done for and by me)? Is it possible to see that me and my preoccupations are just some passing things in the space?

Awareness does not imply anything. What are you actually asking?

is it possible to not react mechanically (do what must be done for and by me)?

It may happen, but I am the mechanism and all I can do is react, so what’s your question?

Is it possible to see that me and my preoccupations are just some passing things in the space?

Yes, of course…filler, content. Why do you ask?

Is zen about control, like the instructions given? Follow the instructions, assume the control?

My first run in with zen was when I read the story about Huineng, here’s a quick summary

The last thing I heard in a zen context was what I quoted above :

Before that, the zen story I quite liked was the koan about Baizhang’s fox : Wild fox koan - Wikipedia

I’m not getting your reference to control, what do you mean? What makes you reference “control”?

“Control” who is going to turn this light? I don’t know any such entity exists

Who is reading this? Maybe the same mysterious non-entity? Zen is curiosity about this question.

Maybe you are saying that the institution of zen (monasteries and such) are trying to force us to look - but I assure you, they cannot. In fact, it is traditional to turn people away (those that want to become monks that is)

Let’s assume there is no entity that turns the light inward. What causes the light to turn?

2 Likes

We could say : Curiosity.
Which just kicks the can down the road.

I did read something by K the other day about this that struck me (because it seemed to align with what I keep saying :disguised_face: :innocent:) - namely words to the effect that we must be so deeply affected by this suffering business, that we can’t avoid the issue, crafty dodges just won’t cut the mustard any longer.

I am suffering itself when there’s no escape from the fact that my suffering is my choice.

In what way is it a choice? In my mind its more a habit, or determined by our biology.

But the most important bit of what you are saying seems to be the fact (?) that I am suffering. In the sense that suffering is the movement of me.

And in my experience my suffering is the most important thing in the universe, at times even fills my whole universe.

If it isn’t clear that my suffering results from my choosing to be self-centered (and thereby duplicitous), I am still escaping, fragmented, and time-bound.

True - as its true for any form of identification and authority - be it religious, political, cutural (eg. Buddhism, Communism, Anarchism, Krishnamurtiism etc)