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Why we are here?

K used to ask this question often during his talks or questions & answer meetings.

It’s an important question and I want to try to explain why it is so important.

In the case of K talks people might go there to find guidance, to find a guru, expecting to receive something from him and so advancing spiritually, or attaining some kind of spiritual achievement.

One of the main features of the ego is that of always looking for gratification, for expansion, for attaining something which will make him or her feel better, more elevated or more important. People literally swarm to join famous and charismatic gurus just because they expect to have wonderful experiences.

But K was not dispensing gratification for our ego, nor he meant to help ego to attain so called spiritual advancement. What he meant was that of discovering the falseness of the ego, all the illusions upon which the ego lives and thrives, and show the way to be free of those illusions.

It’s a dangerous task that of pointing out to the ego its illusions. It will react immediately rejecting the attempt and sheltering even more in its illusions. There is a strong psychological resistance in us which has the function to protect ourselves from all the threats to our status quo. If one insists, as K did, the ego can really become violent and hysterical. If you have read the biography of K, you know how the leaders of the theosophical society reacted the moment K began to spread his message.

So, before one would start to listen to K or to participate to a Q&A meeting, it was important to be aware of the motives which brought him/her there. If one had the wrong motivation no real communication could happen. Actually, all motivations are wrong!

So there is a kind of paradox that takes place when we set ourselves to tackle K’s teachings, @nobody has described wonderfully this paradox in another thread:

“Ego is drawn to Krishnamurti because it thinks this Yoda-like man has all the right answers to all the Big Questions. Ego thinks: If I study this great man’s writings and talks, I too will have all the right answers. I will be more intelligent, powerful, spiritually evolved. Perhaps more beautiful too, a longer life, more love. A path to a higher form of happiness.

So ego jumps in and devotes its formidable intellectual intelligence to studying Krishnamurti’s teachings. (It thinks of them as teachings, even though Krishnamurti said he was not a teacher, because to think of them as teachings gives them more authority, and ego is hung up on authority.)

All goes well for a while, ego feels it is growing, swelling, becoming more evolved. (Of course it wouldn’t call itself ego, rather: higher self, true self, consciousness, something like that.) But at some point ego realizes that to take seriously the things Krishnamurti is talking about, the ego will have to give up its throne, relinquish its control. At first this is fine with ego, since it doesn’t think it is the one studying Krishnamurti, it thinks the true self is.

But … if ego is observant and honest and courageous enough, it discovers that IT is deeply involved in the Krishnamurti studying process, that it is not all the work of the true self (if such a thing exists). And this is where it gets really tricky for ego, for the I. Once it has had the insight that it is the one that has thrown itself into Krishnamurti, and that it has done this for typical ego reasons = its own pleasure and comfort, it stands before a kind of fork in the road. Does it continue to expand itself under the guise of devotion to spiritual teachings, or does it step back and look in the mirror. What makes it really tricky is that the former tends to feel good and the latter to feel painful.”

Quite interesting eh?

Now, do you see that this applies to this forum too?

The self brough us here apparently to try to understand better K and the self still continue to try to gratify and expand itself in the discussions. So we ought not to stop at the façades, and must not take for granted that we are here to do the work that K pointed out. The ego has the capacity to disguise itself in every cunning way. The most cunning and the nastier one is that of “I am a spiritual person” or “I have understood”.

But there is another important aspect which I want to expose. When we invest our energies to “spirituality” and it seems that we have attained some form of supposed understanding which makes us feel better or more comfortable or more powerful, we become a kind of monster. We have found our security in something which to us looks like a holy condition, and we stop observing, doubting, or being in touch with reality. We are locked in our golden castle and from there we become a danger for humanity. We have become what in the past was described as “creatures of the dark”. When the ego thinks it has God on its part, when it thinks to be in the “right field” it possesses an enormous energy, what K called the energy of conflict, and it becomes capable of any mischief and atrocity. Think of the tremendous energy and power of the nazi (Gott mit uns), and think of the tremendous energy and power of the talibans.

This concerns us all, we all can fall in the trap, we all can become monsters, creatures of the dark, unless we are aware of the deceits of spirituality, unless we ask ourselves: “why we are here?” and have the courage, honesty, sincerity to explore that question till the end of our illusions.

I’ve asked this question directly and brutally to a person here, in another thread. I had good motives to do that. He refused to answer. In answering to that question, his game, the game all the creatures of darkness like to play, would have been revealed, exposed. And of course he could not afford that, he could not afford to see the light, to let light enter into his refuge of darkness.

He is not the only creature of darkness here, there are quite a few. We must not blame him, them, because they are the mirror of ourselves, but if we are really serious in our work regarding K’s teaching, we should expose mercilessly these ego games both in ourselves and in all those who are making this forum a place to gratify themselves.

So why are you here? What is the simple answer to your own question?

I will tell it, later on. Now I want to leave space for the comments of the others.
Actually I’ve already stated my aims, last year when I first joined this forum…
and partially also yesteday in my other post where I asked this question directly to that person.
I’m not free of egotistic motives, like all the rest of us, the ego is there, claming its toll, but I think I am aware of it and so I keep an eye not to fall into ego games.

But have you asked that question to yourself? Otherwise your question might be a way to elude the problem.

I am here to interact with people who are interested in exploring the kinds of issues that Krishnamurti explored: self, world, thought, consciousness, illusion, reality, truth, falsehood.

I’m not so interested in Krishnamurti’s views, with some exceptions. What draws me to him is his fearless and penetrating investigative spirit, the passion to find out what’s really going on here!

@voyager

Hi voyager, I am happy that you have started another topic. I have not read the topic of this thread completely yet. But, I will try to raise a point, if I feel something is important and connects everyone.

Why are we here? That’s the question. So it can have nothing to do with my motive or your motive. Because, first of all, we are here now together. Therefore, any personal motive pales into insignificance.

“Why we are Here”?

Sorry. I can’t answer for everyone. The different ‘self’ has different reasons to come here. I’m here because - I suffer. Many religions say “There is ONE and hold on to him, so your sufferings will disappear one day” or “Do this, then everything will vanish”. I done that but my sufferings is still there. I’m running towards sensual pleasures and I deceive myself after that act. Those scriptures helps in concentration, only for a while. But sufferings is still there. I need help to get rid of this sufferings.

The content of my sufferings is “I’m wasting my energy”. Whenever I’m alone, I like the pleasure in being alone, and use those time to “waste” my energy. Then I suffer by deceiving myself “Why I am running for those pleasures? Let me concentrate on some useful act”. So again read scriptures. Then again I’m alone. It goes on and on and on.

Now, I’m relieved. But I fear of being alone, due to those pleasure providing acts and the awaiting sufferings.

Ultimately, I fear of “worldly pleasures” and I don’t want those. I don’t want pleasures/security and I feel responsible to humans and want to give my life for them and change atleast one. But the pleasures drive me crazy and ‘condition’ me.

Why not? It may be the only way to answer this question.

I can’t answer for you or anyone. How can I ‘know’ about your/anyone’s desire?

If I ‘condition’, ‘my’ desire is same as ‘yours’, it’s not fact. It differs from one ‘self’ to another ‘self’. Everyone suffers. Everyone desires. But the content is not the same. Only ‘me’ can see ‘my’ whole content.

‘Me’ can’t see ‘you’. ‘You’ can’t see ‘me’. In relationship, both/all ‘me’ sees itself and not others.

And I describe here, how I waste my energy.

I try to change Humans.This is my pleasure. I try to communicate with people by applying for Membership in forums. People run away from my questions. People block me. I suffer of this ‘rejection’. I am frustrated then “I couldn’t show at-least one”. I’m not interested in social Medias,etc… I try to disengage, by reading scriptures (sensual pleasures). This too is useless. I don’t know what to do. I’m alone. I don’t have any ‘desires’ (except to bring change in at-least one). So I fear of this and again seek for membership.

I waste my energy in this way. I don’t know what to do in my life.

Edit - I’m a newbie so I’m restricted. Also I don’t know when I will be blocked. So I’m editing here. Please check the reply @voyager

Yes. We can observe the reactions. But I feel that we can’t feel the same reaction as if it happens within me. K had spent his whole life to make people ‘listen’ and observe the whole reaction in themselves. They observed but they didn’t understood it’s seriousness. One can understand other person’s reactions, only if they are in the same situation too. An employee can understand the ‘anger’ of employer, only when he faces the same issues/contents of employer’s ‘anger’. Same to father and son. When someone is ‘conditioned’, they can understand only their own content. In this ‘condition’, one cannot understand by observing other person’s reactions.

Yes. K made a strong impact on people (including me). Only because of that, I come here often. He ‘opened’ a place where no one can come here with ‘ideas’. I’m not bound to K or K’s words. But I’m bound to people who come here. It makes me to feel that “Only Serious person will come to K’s forums/foundations”. No other humans in other forums are much ‘open’ to ‘drop’ their ideas.

Which ‘what-is’? The pleasure I derive from coming here to change people? or the loneliness I face by ‘rejections’ and suffering that “I couldn’t change one”? Could you point out to stay with which one?

I cannot stay here for many hours. When time comes I will be blocked soon. So, most of the time, my ‘what-is’ is “sufferings” due to - ‘rejection’ and ‘couldn’t change’.

I’m battling not with ‘me’, but with people. I can clearly see that “I cannot change another ‘conditioned’ one”. But my insight/desire/pleasure, pushes me to go again and again in one or other way, to reach new person who are serious. I cannot find “who are serious and who are not”. People are not ‘openly’ saying that too.

Yes. This ‘observing’ without trying to do. This is a great thing. While observation, we see the ‘pleasure’ and it makes us immediately to do ‘something’ and so ends the ‘observation’. It’s very tough to be aware of ‘pleasures’ in observation.

Are you aware that in doing that, in interacting with people here, you are interacting with their egos, with their hidden motives, with their psychological reactions? Are we ready to learn from that, beside from what it’s being said, which is the façade? And in the interaction with other egos are we aware enough to see our ego in operation?

You are being positive here, or optimistic. It may happen that, if we are able to create a favorable group atmosphere, the personal motives pales into insignificance. Did you felt this atmosphere here?

Yes, of course, we may have a variety of different motives. The aim of my thread was that of exploring these various motives. Anyway, we are in the same boat, that means that we share the same psychological structure and so may have the same reaction, but what’s more important we can understand the psychological reactions in another as if they were yours.

So you are expecting to end suffering with the help of this forum? Or through K.’s teachings? That, I guess is what we all hope. But have we understood the very precise ad clear post of @nobody, which says, in short, the ego (we) wants to be free from suffering and so approaches K. If he is smart enough he realizes that he is the cause of that suffering, and he is left (by K) alone with that realization without knowing what to do…

Maybe just your running away from those pleasures is the cause of suffering. Can’t you stay with “what is” and do nothing?

Perhaps they drive you crazy because you are battling with them, you are in conflict with yourself. You need to understand conflict, how we separate ourselves from our pshycological urges and claim they do not exist. But they exist, and our denial will only reinforce them.

We all don’t know what to do with our lives. As I said we are in the same boat. But some of us keep calm in the boat and observe the menacing waves advancing without trying to do anything, perhaps the waves will lose their strength after a while. Others wriggle around and will provoke the boat to roll even more with the risk of sinking.

Yes. Yes. And yes. Not 100% of course, I still fall into old habits, still lose sight of the ego at work.

You can’t. You can’t even know about your own desire, otherwise you wouldn’t be in the mess you are in with all these extra attempts to get back on to this forum each time in a different guise but with exactly the same patterns of behaviour. So desire isn’t personal. That’s the point. When you make it a personal quest, that’s when you get caught up in all its misery and conflicts.

Then you are reading it wrong. I am not saying anything positive or optimistic. I am saying that our personal motives for being here are unimportant. The fact is we are here. What shall we do in the face of this fact? Our motives only take us away from the fact.

That is exactly the core of what I said in my initial post, and that’s what I see it’s happening here (limited to the few people I interacted with). Either you are setting the ideal: we are here and that’s is all that count, or you are actually saying that it is what happens in the discussion you had. That is why I asked: did you feel that this atmosphere is here?

Than do it and stop complaining.

I started listening to his words, as you said. After some time, I felt his understandings are like basic tools for tackling the situation around me but I realized it is also one of the verbal conclusions I have got in my mind. When it comes to “EGO”, I see there is a deep interconnect with “ATTENTION”. The reasoning goes like this,

I was questioning myself, can I live without emotion in my life? After some time, I felt there is some emotion inside, besides everything I do in my life. The reason why I got to that conclusion is that I never made a completely rational decision in my life yet. With such understanding, I see that when I pay attention to things that I desire, there is EGO hiding underneath.

Have you got such understandings as I said?