Why Don't We Change After All These Years?

[Thomas-Paine]

@eye

@Thomas-Paine

You need to address the problem right?

Sure, but I think you can end up with quite a skewed view of humanity if you only focus on the bad. You can really really build up some rage and negative feeling by doing that. I’m suggesting that might not be healthy. I don’t say you are doing that, but your example of the concentration camps is pretty emotive.

I don’t spend my days focusing on the bad, I assure you. My point is only that the good can stay as is…it’s the bad that needs fixing. And it very badly needs fixing. If you don’t have blinders on you can see that very clearly. I don’t see where the misunderstanding comes from.

[eye]

@Thomas-Paine

I don’t see where the misunderstanding comes from.

It’s getting late out here, but I’ll sign off with one last thought. Can the good stay as is, or does it need to understood, nurtured and given strength and vitality? I feel you’re focusing on half the story somehow. Our societies are mixtures of order and disorder - and so when you talk of the mess only, that’s maybe where the misunderstanding comes from. To be clear though, I agree there are parts of our societies and selves that badly need some fixing.

Goodnight.

[DanMcD]

@Thomas-Paine

My point is only that the good can stay as is…it’s the bad that needs fixing. And it very badly needs fixing. If you don’t have blinders on you can see that very clearly. I don’t see where the misunderstanding comes from.

If the ‘fixer’ of the bad is the one who created it, why would one expect that there could be a radical change?

[Thomas-Paine]

@DanMcD

t? It may be the ‘I process’ that is / was the ‘wrong direction ‘, ‘wrong turn’ not the horrors that have resulted from it? The nazis,etc may have been as ‘lawful’ an occurrence as ‘when it rains, the streets get wet’.

K. said that ‘the house is burning’. When your house is burning you don’t stay inside and focus on enjoying all the good ‘stuff’ you’ve accumulated. You get out. I agree Dan with your point. It’s the ‘me’…the self…that’s the wrong turn K talked of.

[Thomas-Paine]

@DanMcD

If the ‘fixer’ of the bad is the one who created it, why would one expect that there could be a radical change?

I only said that it needs fixing…addressing…the ‘wrong turn’ humanity took. I didn’t say ‘I’ could fix it. But it sure does need addressing, unless we’re happy to live as we have been doing for many thousands of years with all the wars and suffering.

[DanMcD]

@Thomas-Paine

But it sure does need addressing, unless we’re happy to live as we have been doing for many thousands of years with all the wars and suffering.

Isn’t what has to be addressed the fact that we see ourself as being separate from what takes place in the world? That I’m here and that’s going on ‘out’ there?

[voyager]

@Thomas-Paine

Yes, but this fear and pleasure principle is what’s behind human suffering. We want to hold on to the pleasure and when it’s threatened we get frightened or angry or violent.

Yes, of course. But the question of fraggie is not only wrongly formulated but also off topic. I was simply describing what happens to me during the observation of thoughts, without entering into the implications of the issue.

[voyager]

@fraggle

In real world such division is called ignorance and the cause of suffering.

Fraggie, you are talking like a school teacher. And what is worse you don’t realize that your whole speech is just fried air.

[fraggle]

@voyager

And what is worse you don’t realize that your whole speech is just fried air.

When i grow up i would like to be as wise as you!

[voyager]

@fraggle

When i grow up i would like to be as wise as you!

You had better say: I would like to be as dumb as you. There are too many wise people in this forum.

[fraggle]

@voyager

You had better say:

“Old pond
A frog jumps in –
The sound of water”

[Thomas-Paine]

@voyager

I was simply describing what happens to me during the observation of thoughts, without entering into the implications of the issue.

Understood. I often do the same…describe ‘what is’…not what should or might be.

[JackPine]

@fraggle

Sorry but this response doesn’t answer the question of the original post. To really answer that question you should explain why “we want to hang onto the images we have of ourselves” and so on.

Sorry? My you seem to really have a grand vision of your flawless understanding do you not? I described what I felt were the reasons I may not want to change. What K is talking about is, essentially in my view, a psychological death. The death of the illusion of the self which we have all become so fond of and attached to.

I suggest you judge your own reasons for not changing if not wanting to change is a fact for you. None of us are qualified to judge why others don’t want to change.

[fraggle]

@JackPine

I described what I felt were the reasons why I might not want to change.

You didn’t describe anything and you know it. Hence my request for further elaboration. But if you consider that the answer to my question is a reaction, then maybe the problem is yours, not mine.

[JackPine]

@fraggle

You didn’t describe anything and you know it. Hence my request for further elaboration. But if you consider that the answer to my question is a reaction, then maybe the problem is yours, not mine.

You’re starting to become a bore. I suggest you let it drop. I don’t have to either explain or defend anything to you.

[fraggle]

@JackPine

You’re starting to become a bore. I suggest you let it drop. I don’t have to either explain or defend anything to you.

If you think you have the right to say whatever comes to your mind about others, then i have the right to say that you are here for MERE ENTERTAINMENT … That’s all.

[JackPine]

Thanks for the laughs fraggle. Every forum needs comic relief.

[fraggle]

My God!

[DanMcD]

K.: “The self is evil”

[fraggle]

“JackPine, post:181, topic:257”
(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

I’m glad you realized what the “me” was trying to do to you.