Typically, mystics would do that. But here, to my understanding, it’s suggested that we can’t sustain in being caught in such a situation, it’s likely due to the reason that the normal(unconscious or default or whatever we choose to call it) connection between body and mind is severed in such an experience and needs be reverted to, and that (to be rooted in stability) happens with anchoring in it as K says. But if we refuse anchoring, then the sudden loss of meaning would push the organism into a state of carelessness and making it very much susceptible to accidents.
We all know quite well the consequences of our derangement and delusion in ourselves. The only difference is that the vast majority look for someone else to give.them a miraculous pill to get rid of those consequences, while few, very very very very very few, try to look at it for themselves (despite what they may have heard from others about it).
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What are those supposed “requirements” according to you, if i may ask?
Krishnamurti talks about the interval beween thoughts in “The First and Last Freedom”. In this video clip, you can read the part of the book which deals with this:
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I guess the list would be very long! Probably everything K. used to say at his talks were “requirements”, quite a lot to be understood and digested. Usually he gave 7 talks in Saanen or Brockwood (reduced to 5 in his last years) where he developed his speech in a sort of progression, from the basic things to be understood (like fears, desires, etc.) to the final one: meditation. I’ve attended to many of them and they were always in the same order, so this to me means that there must be some essential and necessary “requirements” before arriving to meditation.
It would be interesting if we, here, would write down such a list. Each one of us giving his/her contribute.
But I suppose nobody is interested in this, considering the lack of reply I got. (
There was someone in Saanen - long ago- who wrote such a list and gave it to the people at the exit of the marquee where K. spoke. I must have it buried somewhere. If I find it I’ll post it.
Ah! That’s it. Thank you for telling it.
So I was right ( Glad to know that this thing has not been negletted by somebody…
Thank you Natarajan…appreciate the clarification! Makes more sense now.
I found another very meaningful point where K. talks about that interval:
Madras 9th Group Discussion 29th April, 1948
The understanding mind is denuding itself of all thoughts and there is also the lengthening of the interval between thought and thought. What happens in that interval ? The interval has been experienced. When thought arises in that interval , that thought is examined with greater quickness, anew. The lengthening of the interval between two thoughts gives greater capacity to deal with any thought that may arise in that interval . The experiencing of this interval is what we are now considering. There is a vitality in this interval . In this interval all effort has stopped; there is no choice, no condemnation, no justification, and no identification; there is also no interpretation of any kind.
[…]
Regeneration is not a factor depending upon me; because, it cannot be brought about by any effort or any struggle on my part. In itself, that interval is living, it has action. I don’t have to hold on to it and say ‘it must live’. Without causation which is from memory, this interval lives by itself and it also gets lengthened. There is the experiencing of such a state in which there is no cause and effect.
[…]
Now, your difficulty is not understanding a problem at all, but to have that interval between two thoughts . Therefore, you do not want to strive to be good, to be non-violent etc. You are only concerned with that interval with which you can live from moment to moment. You have no problem and nothing to maintain; for, as that interval functions, the problems as they arise will be promptly dealt with, by the new meeting the old without being in any way contaminated by the old.
Thank you for finding that. It’s really explicit, isn’t it? I recall also reading him saying that when we both are at the same time in that ‘space’ or interval between thoughts , then we are in “relationship”.
Thank you voyager for the excerpt!
Do you understand that excerpt? What is that “interval with which you can live from moment to moment” to deal promptly with problems as they arise such as getting rear-ended in traffic?
" Without causation which is from memory, this interval lives by itself and it also gets lengthened." This part is beyond me I’m afraid.But it’s obvious what the interval is that he’s describing…space…silence…attention…awareness…all free from interference from ‘me’.
It’s the space between the thoughts…where each one ends before the next begins. It is almost invisible since our thinking is almost non-stop. To look for this ‘space’ slows the thinking process down. Being in the interval allows the next arising thought to be seen but the exercise is to ‘stay ‘ in the discovered
space and the rising thought is seen as an interference to be dissolved? Voyager kindly posted some of K’s remarks about the “interval”.
It simply means that the interval between thought and awareness is getting larger, that is: more awareness and less thought, so that when any thought arises “thought is examined with greater quickness, anew” by awareness … Completely the reverse of what happens to most of us, that is: too much thought and too little sporadic awareness.
Until we get “rear ended “ and then we’re right there.
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You’re right @DanMcD … although, unfortunately, this doesn’t work for all of us. Sometimes even if we are “rear-ended” we decide to stay “right here”.
I had a friend who had been a Buddhist monk for at least 30 years. Before that, he had followed K’s teachings, he even traveled to Saanen more than once. And we used to “walk together quietly” talking about the life we live, the impermanence of everything and the emptiness of that very life. But when the doctor said: “you have brain cancer” he collapsed psychologically, and began to say “I don’t want to know anything about teachings, no K., no Buddhism, no nothing! Everything is theory, and what is now is the Cancer”. Despite that, he never observed cancer, always lamenting the situation. The last time I visited him in the hospital, when I was about to leave, I said goodbye to him saying that I had to go because otherwise I would miss the train to go home. He didn’t even listen to what I said, angry as he was with the nurses because they had sat him in a chair and he wanted to be in bed. I said goodbye again, with no luck until one of the friends who were in the room said “he is saying goodbye to you.” Then, and without looking at me because he was still angry with the situation, he said “goodbye”. And I left sad knowing somehow that it would be the last time I would see him alive, as it was.
This is not a criticism, but simply an example to illustrate that what you say, even if it is an incredible opportunity that life gives us to change (or put into real practice, what we have supposedly been observing for years) does not work for everyone … not even if we have previously walked a more or less spiritual path of any kind.
Thank you Fraggle for the story. It occurred to me today that what we don’t truly face from the time we are children until adulthood is The imminence of our death at any moment…we see it around us and we ‘know ‘ it can happen at any moment but it’s pushed aside and we live in dreams of a ‘future’. I watch the animals but this coming to terms with our death and those of our loved ones is never as I see it ‘solved’. Is it our curse that we can know it will happen but we can’t know when? And without that total understanding, that we can’t really live?
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I will comment tomorrow because i’m going to sleep now, but we’re touching something important here and i think it’s worth delving into it as it is directly related to the title of this thread: “why don’t we change after all these years?”. But anyway i wouldn’t like go to bed without leaving a question that arose in my mind after reading your words: what’s the role of impermanence/death regarding the core teaching of K.?
Thanks for your feedback @DanMcD!
In that case, how on earth can we get rear-ended? In that interval, there is total 360 degree awareness and we practice defensive driving.
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