So - you are free from everything. Because freedom means actually - you are not attached/dependent on something. It is freedom. No one/Nothing can make you attached/dependent again. If it happens again (that attached/dependent), then it is not actual freedom.
How do you know that bolding part ??
Isn’t the whole sentence based on what
we have concluded it is ?
Which will not say it isn’t !!
If one - observes how K speaks in videos - about ‘thoughts/etc’ not about technological, then one can see - how his mind is sharp. Many fake gurus or scientists - had observed and gave their opinion as so. It is not conclusion. It is just an opinion of ‘Observation’.
Painful is me holding on to pain, just as pleasure is, which is to say, something I identify as in order to keep myself in the game. Even having conflict can work in this way. These are the components of self and therefore isolation are they not?
See. we come to this discussion - to verbally discuss what is isolation or we are actually suffering due to this isolation. I’m asking personally. Do you actually isolated or you are asking what is isolation verbally?. If you actually isolated - then you can observe - whether it is ‘painful’/‘pleasure’.
See. My loveable one leaves. I’m isolated. Here it is pain. And I suffer due to this isolation.
or
My wife is such a hell. So I’m isolated from her - to seek pleasure.
So, like this - we are actually isolated - or we come here to discuss verbally about it?
There is no you or me to be free. Freedom is when there is no self-centred activity whatsoever. This is freedom, love; this is the fruit of human existence. The self that grabs for this fruit is simply moving further and further away from it.
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We shall start a new thread shortly.
What drives one to abandon everything to look deeply at fear, if not fear? and what drives one to look deeply at isolation, if not isolation? And what are fear and isolation if not suffering?
So, we observe that suffering is the root of isolation. Right?
You see? You are immediately doing something, translating it, using one piece of knowledge against another. You have not even looked at this issue of desire, which is the whole thing you started off with. You have formed a conclusion, a view, a position, and are reacting from that.
Do you realize that this whole argument is over one stupid cigarette? And I don’t even smoke.
So that’s enough. For me, this thread is now closed.
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Any change within the field of time is the same movement modified and continued.
Freedom has relevance only to a separate being. It is an entirely psychological concept. One that signifies an ending of the urge to control circumstance in the timeless present as opposed to the eternal future.
Life is not free. It just is. There is nothing apart from Life. Therefore nothing to be free from.
Hello Wim. I don’t know that K had a “crystal clear mind” when he answered questions but he did often give very clear answers which went to the very heart of the question. I think it would not be possible to do that without a very clear mind. But I could be wrong, of course.
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We are not observing to change within the field of time. But go beyond it. We are observing to end time(because - it is limited,etc… - one knows about what misery it brings). We doesn’t know whether we may end it /not. But we observe/enquire the ‘I’. Only by observing the ‘I’ actually - we see what happens in our(humanity) life and on it’s very seeing - we may end it. And in the very ending of ‘I’ - the whole time(psychological) stops. That is time (psychological) means - living/comparing/believing in past,present & future. What remains only is the ‘Now’.
Shall we observe/enquire about ‘life’?
What do you mean by ‘life’ (not yours’s or mine, whole humanity’s)? ‘Life’ actually one lives in this world is fighting with others(i.e. Parents,siblings,wife,children,neighbours,employer,friends,etc…). Right? Does we have to ‘accept’ that ‘life is just it’ - and go on fighting/abusing others?
Hi Sean,
That’s also how it appears to me, and still there is this question of what makes it different from othher clear messages, which we don’t observe as such?
Take for example the clear message from Mr. Trump about " stealing the votes ".
I read that still 40 miljoen Amaricans are thinking this is right!
There is no evidence for it as there is no evidence for the words of K. but still we are seeing them as qualitative diffrent, why and how ?
I see suffering more as an outcome, and separation as the factor common to both.
So if the suffering is the outcome - what is the input & process that gives that outcome?
@caviswa_gmail_com
Is it not psychological separation? Were that not at all would there be any problem, or would there just be challenges, which could be met fully?
The effects of sufferings are psychological separation. But if we see its effects, then automatically we come to a conclusion that “we have to get rid of it” and we make an another belief.
But if we observe sufferings (i.e. not going forward but going backward/into the root - see these are just words - don’t get confused this with K’s quotes), we can see the cause of it.
@caviswa_gmail_com
Yes, I have to be stay with the fact of it and not react. Even the notion of isolation as a problem, not meeting as a problem, which has to be overcome, and transformed into meeting, is an escape and an avoidance of the fact. I need to allow the fact of isolation to speak for itself.
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Just observe the suffering, as you observe a mountain or a map ‘not pinpointing this is good, this is bad’. - but just observe.
And one can see that - ‘it is because of something lost which one is attached’