Only if we communicate verbally, there is dullness. But when we both observe practically and actually - it’s not at all. It’s very interesting.
He did it alone. His mind was Razor sharp. That’s why Annie Besant had trained him, just by looking at him and saying ‘he has something special’. But, He doesn’t stop there when he found. He thought he may be right/wrong. He had many, many discussions with Scientists,etc… not only to show them what his view is, but also to come to an understanding that, what we see is truth.
You can do it alone by reading books, seeing videos, or observing your I. But don’t stop there. Even I did that too. I suffered a lot, I inquired it within myself. But i’m free now from my sufferings/desires/beliefs,etc. I don’t know whether my view is right/wrong. I didn’t stop there. I joined this forum, to share what i see. I doesn’t know whether my view is deluded or pure. And so I advice - if you can observe, share with us. So we both can see together. Psychologically we are ‘one’. Share what you had observed with us, so we can discuss about that.
Yes I agree, but the dullness I was referring to is the dependency on others, especially when they lack the energy needed to see, or are fearful and thus reactive. There is that element of huddled round the campfire for collective comfort as if this was not something one had to be capable of doing on one’s own, since no one is dying your death for you.
Exactly! You see to me this oft repeated thing of two friends sitting on a bench talking through their problems together was never an exhortation to find a friend, or a validation of person’s seeking friendship. It was addressing the reality of where human beings were and trying to get them to address their situation where they were. My take on it is that Krishnamurti was really trying to get volatile neurotics with imaginary friends as a bulwark against too great a sense of the isolation they were, to slowly, and gently realise, that they were volatile neurotics with imaginary friends trying to keep isolation at bay. It was not saying this is what you should aspire to be. How do you see it?
Then you are not in the middle of it; you are still separate as the observer. There is no such thing as the ‘is’-ness of violence - that is our clever spin on it. There is only violence, which is me.
So what it really means to be resentful is always far off in the future - that’s what you are saying. That’s just a trick. It means I can leave it alone and not be bothered by it. So I carry on being resentful, angry, hurtful and all the rest of it.
Suppose someone insults me. Resentment forms only when there is an image that gets hurt by the insult. But generally we don’t see this side of it; instead, we feel the hurt and try to counter it by immediately forming another image of the other person as protection for our own image. Then come the arguments, justifications, sulking, passive aggressive behaviours - all that begins. To be aware at the moment of resentment that it is merely an image being hurt immediately dissolves both the hurt, the image and the mental trail of resentments. That is, to be aware of being hurt at the very moment of hurt, not waiting for the resentment to accumulate. Because where there are images then resentment is always there, lurking in the background; and it is the hurt that reveals this fact.
We could put this another way: it is the direct perception of psychological pain without any movement towards psychological pleasure. Without this element of pleasure, which must always be projected by thought as images, the whole nature of pain is transformed.
So we have revealed something in a dialogue together. That’s what we set out to ask: what is it that gets revealed? Not love, not awareness, not some vague abstract ideas. Our pain gets revealed, that’s all. We have been to the dentist and he has located the rotten tooth.
Yes. Even someone tries to be a ‘leader of that campfire’, because one assumes he ‘knows’ everything (knowledge itself is past). Not only he is caught in ‘knowledge of teachings’, but also grabs others with his fish net. It is not done intentionally, but because of ‘ignorance’ of actuality.
Exactly. We have to face the reality on our own.
In my view, K sees how one is caught in his beliefs. During the Second World War - many soldiers died. He saw, ‘How they are addicted and driven by the beliefs’. He couldn’t console for the grief of their parents. Even now - we can see what these morons do for comforting an idiot.
So, K found ‘authority’ is destructive psychologically. He begged all ‘to just observe’. But they restricted to see - as they felt security gives comfort. So, he pushed all to ‘inquire’ together - so we may have a step by step questioning. They was amused and said, “Wow. We had not seen this before. Your teachings are extraordinary” and again they returned to their comfort zone - and the sufferings,pleasure,pain,beliefs,etc - continues. New belief replaced Old beliefs. They just make his teachings as a food for their Knowledge/Intellect. They deluded themselves by concluding that they had understood everything - and they continue to suffer. No Love, no Relationship,no Truth take place between them. We are ‘one’. We are just just physically different, but not in ‘psyche’.
Not at all. No one can force or order or answer others that - this is it. He just asks to find Freedom from everything. Because every second, we are just circling within our belief,etc… unknowingly and causing miseries in this world.
Observing the violence needs no effort. In observation - you won’t be in the middle of ‘I’. If you are in the middle, you can’t see the whole movement, and you will see only partially. Then there differentiation arise between Observer and Observed. It will mislead you.
is it right?
See if a friend asks me to smoke and one is aware of it’s effects at that moment - one won’t touch it. There is no ‘I’ saying “I should not smoke”. There is no ‘I’ at all when we are aware. If you are not aware of it’s effects - then the ‘I’ comes as a belief and say - “I should not smoke”. Then another ‘I’ arises which craves for the pleasure it derives from it and orders “One last time we can smoke, it won’t do anything” Then, there arises conflict. Then there is pleasure for a limited time and later full of Sufferings,pain,misery,etc… This what means “The House is on fire”. Could you see that? - or is there anyother view?
Yes. It’s far beyond ‘I’. I shouldn’t have discussed about that now.
Then this is why to continue our dialogue is vital; it’s not the point where we abandon it. While we fail to see the same things we are accepting conflict into our lives.
See. you can see that “House is on fire” - not your house or my house. Humanity is the house and fire is the Sufferings. What we have to do?. See that the “House is fire” and observe it burn into ashes?. Suffer. That’s all. Don’t we have to put it off?
When thought is absent, we are saying that there is a different kind of perception. Without thought, previous conditioning doesn’t operate to distort the perception. So if you look at a tree with a silent mind, you might actually see the tree as it really is rather than look at it through the filter of thought and past conditioning. I don’t know if we can go any further than this. We can experiment with this and see what happens.
There are different ways that we might react. On a good day, I would be quick on to any anger that arose, remain calm, listen carefully and then respond appropriately to the scolder. On another day I might get angry and scold back. Scolding would generally lead to a defensive, angry response but there are many variables here.
Is thought absent now? Without waiting to experiment with the tree, is thought absent right now as we converse with one another? Obviously, thought must be present to pose the question and to form the responses to the question. But our conditioning, our opinions and beliefs, does any of that need to be present? For the purposes of this experiment, that’s what we are calling thought.
You are being too clever. Do you suffer? Personally, I don’t. I am not hungry; I am not destitute; I am not lonely; I am not ill. I don’t suffer. Do you?