Hii,
There is no need to describe the feeling, in the instants at which comparison happens. In this aspects “honesty” is required, to accept that the self inside underwent some comparative thoughts. It is a detachment towards the thought processes of one self.
Giving a description to those feelings will create a memory inside. It will just hold the mind, if the situations close to such a kind of thoughts happen in life.
Please share your view
Well, there might be a need. We don’t know anything about comparison except that we constantly compare. Are we interested in discovering something new here?
We can see a thought started from the roots of comparison, if not there is no detachment and honesty to one self.
My point is that describing the sensations with words will just become memory.
“Are we interested in discovering something new here?”
This not new, this is nature of mind. Mind is same to human beings, but the situations subjected to the person will change according to surrounding environment and therefore psychological structure will change.
Exploration is prevented by thought, in the firm of previous knowledge, rushing in and smothering any possibility of discovery. Previous knowledge of comparison will close the door to discovering anything new about comparison or anything else.
We know too much about comparison, the mind and all the rest of it.
I have a similar kind of understanding as you said.
“Previous knowledge of comparison will close the door to discovering anything new about comparison or anything else.”
In this case there is some difference in our perception, related to the topic of comparison. I say that knowledge may generate a conclusion inside, if there is no skepticism. Obviously, if conclusions arise then door of seeing the present will close.
I personally don’t. I am very limited.
Hi Sivaram. Maybe we have “got off on the wrong foot” on our exploration of comparison. I liked your joke about being very limited and it made me laugh. That can’t be a bad thing.
You said, “where there is comparison, there is surely, automatically, separation”, and I tried to explain the difference between inevitable comparison and invidious comparison.
Are there destructive and separating effects of constant comparison?
Invidious comparison serves the purpose of separating yourself from others as being better or worse. Inevitable comparison is benign observation. You can’t quit doing it any more than you can quit being aware.
Like most things, we need to go deeper here.
You’ve already dug yourself into the hole of condemning all comparison, so…
**Got any suggestions about a wider audience? And of course, a person could do in-person and online, email, zoom, etc…
**Theoretically, participating here, or in a face-to-face group, reflects an interest in the teachings. But many, it seems, prefer quoting K, over inquiry. And that’s inquiry as in ‘looking’ or observing together.
**So those who are actually serious about looking together can do that with the ones who are actually serious about inquiry. And those who are caught in the illusion of being “somebody special” can continue in that delusion.
K: Do you understand what I am saying? You are all somebodies. You all want to be something, either professionally, or you have delusions of grandeur; you want to achieve something or become something, realize something, fulfill. Which is all respectability. We are saying that in total silence, there is nothing, you are nothing. - The Krishnamurti Reader
Are you interested in exploring comparison or do you know it all already? Do you want to “explain” all you already know about comparison or are you interested in entering into a dialogue where something new may be uncovered? Is there any possibility at all that you may have something to learn here?
I do try to adopt a holistic approach.
Do you understand the difference between inevitable comparison and invidious comparison?
The question appears very direct and blunt. With the absence of body language and tone of voice, which we would have in a face-to-face interaction, this directness could be interpreted as aggressive. However, let’s put that aside and embrace this question as an opportunity to further our exploration of comparison.
The terms “inevitable comparison” and Invidious comparison" are not, as far as I’m aware, used widely. The word “inevitable” means “certain to happen” so we can assume that this term is being applied to comparisions which are unavoidable. For example, when two people apply for a job, there will have to be comparisons made to determine which candidate is more suitable.
For “invidious comparison”, the Collins Dictionary puts the following:
" An invidious comparison or choice between two things is an unfair one because the two things are very different or are equally good or bad.
Police officers fear invidious comparisons"
I am not clear that the definition above corresponds to what we were talking about. I previously wrote about the connection between comparison and separation. For example, when someone says “She is better looking than me” or “I am more intelligent than him”, it seems that the speaker is creating a separation. Making this type of comparison seems to be something that is done, consciously or unconsciously, almost all the time. Don’t we all do this every day? Do we create a separation when we do this?
A difference, a distinction, is not a separation, unless the intent is to use difference or distinction to create separation.
It might be useful to quote what K said was “wrong” with comparison, and why one shouldn’t do it, because I recall only his abjuration of comparison, and not his reason for it.
We all know what it feels like to be compared to another and why it can feel good or bad, right or wrong, depending on whether it seems fair or appropriate.
Sir,
Can you please elaborate on this aspect.
If there is no image of the self inside, then there could be no feeling I guess.
There is effort when there is comparison. You can hear Krishnamurti talking about this for 5:29 minutes here.
He began talking about effort and why we exert so much effort before he launched into comparison,
and he was describing the kind of comparison that makes one feel better or worse about oneself, i.e., invidious comparison and the harm it does.
Yes, that is a fair summary. But did what he say resonate deeply with you?
He asked why we expend so much effort, and this doesn’t seem like a reasonable question unless you see the results of our efforts as compounding error.
We all have a self-image and react emotionally to everything that builds up or tears down our self-image. Therefore, we know what a weakness and a waste of energy self-image is, and we try to imagine having no self-image. But what happens? We can’t imagine no self-image because imagery is all we know. If our minds were not so limited, so literal, we could operate without total dependency on imagery.
Sir, I agree that we become emotional if something effects our image.
We can’t stop imagination, as it is nature of mind but at least we can understand that an imagination is happening inside. Such that we can remember the consequence of attachments to such sort of things, as a negative feedback. It sounds simple to say but it is hard, only few times worked for me.
It is a godly appearance, in my opinion.