Can I experience anything without thought? If there’s no thought, who/what knows there is no thought? What is knowing without thought?
Why one have a believing that he can’t do that?
You can believe whatever you want to believe, including believing that you don’t believe anything. But I don’t need to believe I can’t exist without thought because I am thought and exist only when I’m operative. There’s no believing without thought and no thinking without knowing. Believing and thinking are essentially the same thing.
When there’s no thought, there’s no I, so who/what is to say there’s no thought? Who/what needs to know?
One can let go every thing in mind except one thing he can not let it go. You can try it yourself. We sit in the garden and let it go the past things, the thought , sorrow, the happiness, the envy, ambitions, the desire,…. but one thing even if we want to let it go, we can not. it’s the nature mind.
The nature mind know without thought.
We can hear a sound, see the color clearly without thought. Thought begins when the consciousness chase behind what you see, hear.
When one thinks , he knows he has thought. When another thought arises, he also knows this. It’s the same when one haven’t any thought, he knows he doesn’t have any thought. “ He” that’s mean the nature mind in everyone.
Without thought there’s no thinker, no I, nothing to say there’s no thought because there’s no one who needs to know.
I am thought, and if I need to know when I am not operating, I think of something I can believe explains how I can know when I am not operating.
But if I can know when I am not operating, I am something more than thought, beyond thought, which is what I believe I am. This belief is sustained by operating continuously, and at times, quietly enough to pretend/believe I am not thought.
Is it not more a case of deducing that there might have been some silence (whatever that might be) taking place whilst I was absent - or are you saying that we can experience silence as it happens?
PS. What does it mean to experience freedom? Surely all we can do is experience some projection of the conditioned brain and label it, ie recognise it - in this case as an experience distinct from oppression (being another discriminatory expression of experience) - sorry everyone, please feel free to ignore this useless rant.
Freedom is not an ‘experience’? It is not an ‘achievement’? It is apart from the stream: “I want to be free, enlightened, happy, etc “. That is the stream of judgement, comparison, escape…that is the stream of endless conflict?
When a thought arise and I know I have a thought, at the very moment I know it, does it have thinker? Or one second later the thinker appear?
When a thought arise and I know I have a thought one second later . What do I do when I realize that, I see it without seer, do not return, do not add more, thought fade away and disappear
“Without thought there’s no thinker, no I, nothing to say there’s no thought because there’s no one who needs to know”
I don’t need to know but I know. I know I have thought althought I dont need. Can it be possible?
K has often said, when he goes on long walk, no thought arises in his mind. What is it in K that said no thought. Was there a recording of this state of no thought that was recalled by K ?
K remarked various times when speaking about ‘watching’ thought, about what was doing this ‘choice less awareness’ , was it thought itself that was aware of itself? That is what I recall. Without the awareness of, and dissipation of certain thoughts, suffering, fear, loneliness, anxiety etc can take ‘hold’ in one. Pleasure also?
We are the movement of life, and we don’t like it? We are life, conditioned not to be satisfied - and we don’t like being constantly unsatisfied. We are unsatisfied by our state of dissatisfaction.
We want continous satisfaction. Even some moments of dissatisfaction, is totally unsatisfactory.
So we are in conflict, not only with the world but with ourselves - with what we are.
We are the movement of conflict with what is. And we can recognise that. Life, the universe has brought us here.
The thinker is an imaginary character, the personification of thought.
When a thought arise and I know I have a thought one second later . What do I do when I realize that, I see it without seer, do not return, do not add more
How do you know when you see “without seer”? Isn’t it thought that says you have seen it without seer?
I don’t need to know but I know. I know I have thought although I don’t need. Can it be possible?
As a normal person, I’m not K. I have thought and Idon’t have thought. I see the thought without seer means I don’t depress it, I don’t activate to know it, I don’t know the tail of it , I don’t try to dissipate it. In this knowing, mind doesn’t have any trace of knowing. If a question appear” is there thinker to know”, it immediately has thinker.
If I activate to know, the thinker appear and there is imagination of awake. If I don’t active to know and we perceive it clearly , there is not thinker.
Having Thought or not having thought such as I have a dream last night. When I awake, the dream disappears.
Thank you, Macdoughdogh for your listening carefully. “it’s difficult…” reveal something dissatisfied .So I’m wrong from the first points. I should have let satisfied and dissatisfied mood go.
“It’s a challenge!” : K’s teaching surprise and affect me very much. It need a lot of effort to live with his teaching and I would like to practice it.
“Awareness of the movement of self” seems to be what freedom of intelligence (or Love) depends on.
If “awareness of the movement of self” is an effort, this is probably because we have not seen clearly what the self is.
Some say that whole purpose of self is suffering, also known as the need for progress and security.
When thought/self takes up arms against itself, that is known as ‘self-improvement’…it cannot end its occupation of the psyche, only ‘improve’ it. We are using a ‘new’ instrument, somewhat ossified (?) called ‘awareness’ to keep track whenever possible, the movement of psychological thought/self?
Thought has no motive, no intention - it’s just a mechanism utilized by the conditioned brain to identify itself and everything else, according to its content. It’s “occupation” is the effect of the believing brain; the brain that isn’t free to be nothing but awareness.
What makes you keep saying this? Is it because you see it as a tool used by the user? As in “a hammer has no motive”? Its just a tool that happens to always be used to bang in nails - its the hammerer that has the motive?
I would say that thought arises with motive from the relationship of the non-existant self with its projections. Unfortunate, but there you go, I’m reduced to spouting psycho-babble.
