What do we mean by Fragmented? What is a fragmented human being?
If we ask whether someone is fragmented, what aspects of them are we discussing? What is it about their behaviour, world view, experience etc that we are looking at?
Would a person who was whole, sane, healthy etc have ‘mean thoughts’ about another. Would they arise and if they did arise, would they ‘find a place’? Mean thoughts arise as reaction to something someone said or did? Could a sane , whole person wish to cause harm or pain to another? Or would doing so be indicative of their non-wholeness, their fragmentation ’?
So was K whole–Honest (authentic), healthy, sane? He did NOT want us to have any delusions about him, that’s why he asked so many to write his biographies.
" You called me a fool I have mean thought about you"
The image that I have about myself that I am great is hurt by another image “you are a fool” which is the cause of fragmentation…
According to K, it means not being whole, but since we’re too limited (by our fragmentation) to know what wholeness is, and we’re not directly aware of our fragmentation, but aware only of its effects, e.g., mean thoughts, etc., what are we to do?
Perhaps the point of K’s talks was to put the listener in the position of realizing there is nothing I can do about the problem because I am the problem, and until/unless the problem is more interesting and compelling than being I…
Is not fragmentation part of human nature? Nowhere is matter continuous and thought is matter. But also, thought itself is a fragmented process since thoughts occur in intervals with very short episodes of attention between them. Only a perfect void is continuous everywhere, has no fragmentation at all. I am not implying here that K was fragmented, for I have no basis to assert either way, but I do see that it is possible to live sanely in a chaotic world.
Is there a ‘right’ track to be on for humans now alive in this world? Or does just anything go?
I don’t know.
I can’t “see that it is possible to live sanely in a chaotic world” if I’m not doing it, not demonstrating it. I can only be of the opinion, the belief, the wishful, hopeful notion that it is possible because I feel better being optimistic than being a pessimist.
Danmcderm, what do you mean by " ‘right’ track" and “just anything go”?
Inquiry, is chaos related to sanity? I do not think so. I truly believe that if I were a sane person living in a chaotic world any chaotic person would probably think that I must be from some other planet; in other words, the person that lives sanely in a chaotic world would be utterly misunderstood by the person who lives chaotically, therefore any demonstration would be useless. Regarding optimism and pessimism, I believe that sanity is above these as far as these are forms of resistance.
Why do I believe anything? Isn’t it because when I don’t know what is true, I choose to believe this or that because the false sense of security I get from believing is preferable to realizing how little I know?
Is our “i’m right you’re wrong” type of interactions here on Kinfonet a reflection of fragmentation?
Is the imaginary conflict between the sane and the chaotic people not also a reflection of their fragmentation?
What do we mean by fragmentation? I mean what is the issue from which our conflict and meanness arises? The mental process that is avoiding wholeness?
What does it mean for a human to have a holistic relation with experience? ie. rather than a partial experience
He certainly was an exciting character to read about. Did you want to share your conclusions on the issue? Personally, I’m inclined to go with WTF and leave it at that.
If psychological freedom for us lies in the state of ‘not minding what happens’, what is it in our psychological makeup that keeps us ’minding what happens’?
If my ‘minding’ is the source of fear, conflict, anxiety etc and that ‘minding’ will end at the moment of my death(which is inevitable and has somewhere in ‘time’ already occurred) why not stop/end the ‘minding what happens’ now, since that ‘minding’ will end anyway upon my death?
Trying to not mind, not be fearful, not be violent is of course an effort that arises from confusion and fragmentation. And is very difficult and conflictual.
If everything that I do and want is just the expression of fragmentation, what can I do?
Rather than trying to flee fragmentation, or trying to become whole, or even aiming for psychological death. Should we not at least be clear as to what we mean by these concepts?
Fragmentation means action from something broken apparently, action from something partial, separated from the whole. Does this describe the self? How so?
It depends on whether, in fact, one is correct and the other is incorrect. Sometimes both are incorrect.
If you’re asking how fragmentation manifests in behavior, I can’t think of anything specific because it would be evident in everything one thinks, says, and does. If I’m a pile of pieces rather than the intact functional thing I was before breaking into fragments, I’m nothing like what I was, and everything I say and do is gibberish and foolishness.