I kinda get the feeling from your language etc that you are implying that K intentionally set out to bamboozle us - am I right?

What stuff could he or should he not have said?

Do you know that Krishnammurti himself also practised yoga every morning? He declared it as necessary for his health. So since body and mind go together, it must have affected his well-being too.

So by not following his advice and seeing what it does for you you’re in good companionship, that’s also ment by questioning his saying.

What is your understanding of ‘Find out for yourself’? Is getting answers to your questions from other people and then accepting or rejecting what they say ‘finding out for yourself’? Most people suffer from the illusion that it is. Does psychological thought create problems or is psychological thought the problem itself? If it is the problem itself, which each of us must find out for ourselves, then what does one do when one sees the truth or the falseness of that?

Dear Bob,

In this case I am trying to find out : what Bob thinks, what Bob means when he says stuff.
Surely asking you what you mean is the best method available in this specific case, non?
I’m not interested in understanding the truth about my self, or life the universe and everything - I’m interested in you and your thought process.

Its a conversation between 2 people - no authority, just curiosity.

Now I understand where you are coming from. However. I am not interested in a conversation about this. Globally, we are in crisis and just having a gabfest is out of place here for me. I am only interested in serious inquiry. Have a great day, macdougdoug.

The ‘problem’ is the ‘I process’ which creates an illusory ‘me’. Psychological thought presents itself as being something more than thought, as being an entity ‘having’ thoughts , that there is not just what is being viewed but a viewer ‘doing’ the viewing. As the brain realizes this conditioning, its possible ‘transformation can occur.

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Or maybe better said, the brain’s conditioned state of disinformation can undergo a revolution?

What I find interesting about this, is the apparent disconnect between whats going on out in the world globally, and the interaction happening between us here on kinfonet.

This is part of why we engage in dialogue (as a meditation?) - an important part of which is the constant question of : what actually am I engaging with? the outside world or my own agenda? and how do we tell the difference?

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Coming here into this community and implying that what is going on here is a “gabfest”, is an opinion and is judgmental as well as derogatory.

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We must I think, keep in mind that we are all doing our best - even the playground bully.

Fear and trauma expresses itself through all of us - there is no one way to address the suffering, which sometimes comes across as violence.

What does “doing our best” mean? Am I doing it now? If not, what’s missing?

The self wants to be good, does it not? It wants to be the best it can. Whatever that means is conditioned and subjective (though we do share culture and biology)

The best for someone with a battered and abused childhood is bound to be different than for the dalai lama or bjorn börg

Read my comment and who it was in response to and in what context.

Psychological thought is born of the belief that I know who/what I am, what is actually happening in the moment, has happened in the past, and what is likely to happen henceforth. In other words, the belief that I know far more than I actually do know, and the imperative to keep this faith because I am lost without it.

Nothing changes until I begin to have doubts about my knowingness, and the change is either a feeling of insecurity that can lead to defensive, denialist, desperate behavior, or awakening to the need for self-knowledge.

The ‘we’ that is ‘doing our best’ is the egoic conditioned we.

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I want to agree and say very good - but I have a strict policy of only agreeing with conclusions on the understanding that we don’t know wtf we are talking about.


  • my idea of of the “egoic conditioned we” is at best an incomplete and conditioned model (that may not be of any use)

  • “doing our best” might be a fundamental part of life (whatever that might mean)

Does it matter whether it presents itself as an entity or just a thought? It’s the thought that counts, right? It’s what we think we know that matters, regardless of how presumptuous or confused or mistaken we are, regardless of who or what we attribute our confidence to.

What matters is that I can deceive myself with thoughts, the persuasive power of which I am oblivious.

Has it or is this just speculation?

Yes because that’s how ‘you’ / ‘me’ is created. Without psychological thought, ‘you’ don’t exist.
And ‘you’ supposedly have a past and a ‘future’, etc. But you actually don’t exist and psychological ‘time’ is an illusion.

No it’s not “just” speculation.
Why do you ask?