Can you describe this particular form of grief?
What could be more grievous than realizing your mission is completed and you may have failed?
Incessant bickering with others who have read Krishnamurti. Isolation from those who have not to avoid being viewed as a nutjob and member of a spiritual cult.
The mission can never be completed and you know it. This is an unique curse of the Krishnmurti teaching. Just thinking about this can make one cry.
Please, please take your own advice. K has said so many times what I have said above about division; nationalism, religion and the rest of the divisions that psychological thought invents. Your reasons for keeping national divisions are very short sighted, bridging on irrational. Why don’t you actually try reading K instead of imagining what he has said? His words on the division caused by nationalities and religion appear so frequently.
[/quote]
Look, you may be spending your days meditating in your garden but I travel all the time and live six months abroad every year. National divisions are a fact, buddy. And they won’t go away anytime soon.
No, unfortunately, they won’t go away and neither will the division and wars that nationalism inevitably brings. But as usual you are missing the point of my original post about how nationalism and religion divide people and keep conflict going.
I don’t care how much you travel it’s irrelevant to what I pointed out about nationalism and religion being divisive and leading to conflict. Do you understand that the facts about Nationalism don’t change because you travel a lot? Give this your best effort and try hard to understand this rather simple fact. Also, I found a quote from K on nationalism that I think is very appropriate for you. Good luck.
Collected Works 1934-1935 Vol 2, Aug 25, 1935
Krishnamurti: To love anything beautiful in a country is normal and natural, but when that love is used by exploiters in their own interest it is called nationalism. Nationalism is fanned into imperialism, and then the stronger people divide and exploit the weaker, with the Bible in one hand and a bayonet in the other. The world is dominated by the spirit of cunning, ruthless exploitation, from which war must ensue. This spirit of nationalism is the greatest stupidity.
2 Likes
Nationalism and religion do not divide people and keep conflict going on. You have the negative mindset of folks who want to see those institutions that way. Division does occur when one or more people have interests or goals not shared by others. This happens when you pair off with someone to form a family unit. Are you proposing the banning of private relationships because they are divisive and cause conflicts?
Wake up! Conflict is a human disease and it is endemic in Krishnamurti circles. The bickerings you find in Krishnamurti forums is rife in Krishnamurti schools and organizations. Unless you are an insider, you won’t know that. One time, when Krishnamurti arrived at one of his Foundations, he was (as usual?) besieged by administrators/teachers who wanted him to resolve their conflict. The old man told them to sort it out themselves, retreated to him room and shut the door.
No It’s “endemic” among humans and people interested in K.'s message doesn’t mean that it is cured by being so interested. We came from tribal, herd beginnings, ‘Nationalism’, organized ‘religions’ even ‘families’ are just a carry over from the past. The whole point of this ‘exploration’ is to see if this can undergo a radical change in myself. Not for the thrill of being ‘free’ but to see if as a species, if there is any hope for us to not only destroy each other but so much around us. It looks bleak but it can’t happen unless as you say we “wake up” to the ignorance of this division we feel between us and each other, and the world.
2 Likes
I was an insider, were you? If so where and when?. I arrived at Ojai for the talks in 1978 with my girl friend at the time who was also a certified elementary teacher. I was a frame carpenter at the time and was hired by Max Falk , the builder of the Oak Grove School, to work on finishing that school in Meiner’s Oaks. My girl friend was subsequently hired as a teacher for the school year 1978-1979. We lived, along with other teachers and their significant others if they had one, at what was then called Arya Vihara. Now called the Pepper Tree Retreat. Michael Krohnen was the cook who lived in the cottage outside the back door of Arya Vihara. During my stay there I was able to attend small meetings at Pine Cottage, K’s home when in Ojai, with some teachers and parents. Small gatherings of 10 or 12 people with K talking about various subjects. Also, my wife’s two children with her late first husband went to the Oak Grove School and we still have a few friends left who were connected to the school and the Foundation.
Scree, you need to cite this by place and day. It doesn’t sound like the K I became somewhat familiar with, not personally, but being there and seeing him when he was there nearly everyday and being privy to what was happening at the school and Arya Vihara/Pine Cottage.
Also, again you are missing the point of what I posted. Mankind is destroying ourselves, obviously. We have to come together to solve the problems of the world; the destruction of the environment, the endless wars, the corruption and theft that is leaving billions in poverty while just a handful of humans, 20, own about half of the wealth of the world. Religion and Nationalism have always been divisive and the cause of countless wars. Here in the US we have a psychopath trying to lead the country with the support of over half of the Christians, in the case of Fundamentalist Christians it’s closer to 81% voting for Trump. Capitalism and Christianity and Nationalism are destroying us.
1 Like
This “division we feel between us and each other, and the world” is a fact of my existence. I have no solution for human suffering. My response is to minimize my foot-print and reduce my evil presence in this existence to an absolute minimum.
Human suffering is shared by all of us. It’s not just your suffering or my suffering it is humanity’s suffering. Just as human consciousness is shared by all human beings. We are not individuals, psychologically. Yes we have our own bodies and our faces may be different but we are one people. K has pointed this out many times. It is religion, race and nationalism among other things that divide us.
Thought breeds fear, said Krishnamurti. And you need to watch it. Trump Derangement Syndrome is a liberal progressive sickness. It’s sad that you have not developed immunity to this disease after some 50 years practising thought-watching. If you have been doing right, you would not be among tormented souls thrashing on the surface of the sea of human conflict. You would be in the silent deep of the ocean where even the light of distraction cannot reach.
“The politics of our moment are dominated by a bully of miserable character, a President who has failed to contain a pandemic through sheer indifference, who has fabricated a reëlection campaign based on bigotry and the deliberate inflammation of division. His language is abusive, his attitude toward women disdainful. Trump is all about himself: his needs, his ego, his self-preservation. Along the way he has created a Republican Party in his own image.”
David Remnick
2 Likes
Remnick is a journalist writing for a leftwing audience. Opinions like his serve to stir up social discord that is driving riotous protests in the streets. This is not the way to bring about change in a civilized let alone polite society.
In my opinion, the Krishnamurti mind is not a crude mind driven by emotion and that craving to cause hurt.
In regard to your above post I don’t accept any of it as fact. More like opinion. You seem so bitter about something. Some people get discouraged and bitter if they are not immediately transformed by what K has pointed out. They blame K or accuse him of being something he wasn’t. Sound familiar?
What is sad is that people, apparently, support a narcissist, a sociopath, and a pathological liar who has been a criminal since his teens, at least. And I don’t need your help or advice, thanks anyway. I suggest you follow your own advice. For the second time I’m making this request to you. And something that is truly sad is when someone mistakes their opinions for facts.
Eventually most of us learn that facts are worth so much more than opinions. And perhaps what you see in others is a reflection of your own thinking.
Actually David Remick is one of the most respected journalist in this country (US). Having worked for the Washington Post and the New Yorker Magazine. He has received many top awards as a journalist. His writing is accurate and intelligent and respected which, of course, makes him offensive to the conservative/Fascist movement that is presently being pushed by Trump. I would have said “lead” but Trump doesn’t lead anything.
Why would you label me that way? Is it because you hate Trump and I implore you to watch yourself as Krishnamurti would? Even when his talk was disrupted by a rude protestor and guys like you in his audience would get upset with the trouble-maker, he would appeal for calm.
I have no interest in politics; especially, of the American kind. I don’t like civil disobedience and feel that law and order is essential if we are to live together in safety. I believe Krishnamurti would agree with me on this.
With someone crazy in charge, we’d be crazy not to be rioting.
1 Like
I cannot cite you anything. It was an incident related to me by an administrator/teacher at Brockwood Park. He was a fellow American whom I met years earlier at the Krishnamurti Foundation of India. I am not here to gossip, wash dirty linens in public to put down the Krishnamurti movement. I was just sharing something I came to know. If you insist I was lying, then let’s leave it at that.
Because you supported Trump, indirectly, in one of your above posts.
Scree wrote: Is it because you hate Trump and I implore you to watch yourself as Krishnamurti would?
Listen, I sort of hate to be the one to have to break this fact to you but you are nothing like Krishnmurti.
But where Fox News does reach…
1 Like