Are you inquiring into what K pointed out or merely expressing your own opinions not necessarily connected to anything K pointed out? Your own personal beliefs like: “To be hopeful is to be in a suspended state of being”. That’s your opinion but what does it have to do with what K pointed out?
Hey, you’re the one who brought it up. How do you know I’m not Jewish?
Absolutely not. If I hope to be a great golfer or a concert pianist and neglect my wife and child, then I’d say that’s pretty significant. If you don’t see the significance of this kind of hope, then we can move on.
I am not suggesting that Dr. Bohm is more intelligent than Krishnamurti. If you are convinced that Bohm understood Krishnamurti, why then did Krishnamurti not handover the mantle to Bohm to explain the teaching to us? This way, we don’t have to argue with you about “hope”.
First, I didn’t say Dr Bohm was more intelligent than K or imply it. I don’t know how much Dr Bohm understood about what K was pointing out. I do suggest that everyone who is interested in thought, in particular, read the three fascinating and often difficult books that I listed on the forum. All are dialogues between Dr Bohm and K. What I did say to the person I suggested the books to is that after reading them they might have a different impression of Dr. Bohm.
I don’t think Dr Bohm or anyone was given a mandate to carry on the teachings. But he and others did continue to talk and have discussions after K died in 1986. There were very serious discussions held at Pine Cottage with several people who have been involved with the school and foundation for years. Also, Mary Zimbalist held some small discussions in one of the buildings on the Arya Vihara site. My wife and I went to one. It was interesting.
Krishnamurti taught that it’s crucial to understand the mind, and hope is something the mind practices in pursuit of mundane, practical, as well vain, grandiose results.
The fact is that we practice hope every day, and if you’re unaware of hoping for gratifying results in the daily activity of doing what’s necessary (pursuits you call (“petty” and “trivial”), you’re not attending to what the mind is doing.
The fact that you think so just shows how unaware you are of what the mind is doing. If you were aware of how the mind operates, you’d know how hope plays a critical role in your every endeavor.
The next time you’re disappointed or angry because things didn’t go the way you’d hoped they would, reflect on the suspended state you were in between forming the hoped for result, and the actual result.
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Exactly! Anger, disappointment, violence, subtle or not subtle…all that can be related to dashed hopes
Dashed hopes. There were many from the moment I stepped onto the first tee many years ago.
You’re right I don’t agree with your views on hope. Hope is thinking, psychological thinking, which creates problems. So if I don’t agree with your views on hope that means I’m unaware of what the mind is doing?
Hope is an escape from the pain of the moment, the misery one may be in. So one hopes things will be better but they never will until one stays with the problem and understands why one feels the way they do. Until one understands, stays with, their psychological pain one can’t escape psychological pain but hope is an attempt to do just that. Hope is living in the future. K spoke so often of the need to live in the present, not the past or the future as most of us do.
Yes. You’re oblivious of the hope you that enables you every day with your every practical endeavor. I explained it to you but all you can hear is the echo of K’s words which you repeat mindlessly.
First, I’ve been called down on the carpet for “rude” statements and I want to share that experience with you. You’ve earned it. I don’t appreciate your rude comments about why I post what I do. The rule states, as I was recently informed by Dev, that you can criticize the statements but not the poster.
But what you seem to not understand is not everyone does this. I certainly don’t.
I apologize. Let’s keep it impersonal. My point is that if one is aware of what the mind is doing, one sees that every endeavor, how ever mundane, begins with hope of accomplishment, and that hope is sustained until the endeavor ends in success, failure, or the realization that the endeavor was irrational.
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Every mind does this. It’s human - not personal.
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No, not every mind does this. K didn’t do it. How do I know? Because when he wasn’t talking or engaged in something that required thought his mind was still, quiet. He has often pointed to this fact about himself. Therefore, it is not necessary for a human being to constantly be in a state of hope which some on here are apparently stating. What K was pointing to was to have a quiet mind. A mind that is not thinking but in attention. That can’t happen if you are in some state of thought whether it includes hope or not.
Perhaps, but everything you do apart from sleep and meditation requires thought. Observe yourself the next time you go about some task and you’ll see that if you’re not hoping to complete the task, you won’t have the will to attempt it.
This is another example of that infuriating way to use the word “psychological”. Is there any other kind of thinking?
Yes, if you would actually read what K has said about thinking it wouldn’t be such a mystery or confusion for you. There is practical thinking. The thinking required to drive a car and do the thousands of other tasks, duties, chores, whatever we do everyday. Psychological thinking is thinking, the past, projecting itself into the future as change. Like I am one thing today but I will be better tomorrow or next year. This is the thinking that K has pointed out as being the root of all the problems of the world.
Psychological thinking is the thinking that divides us and causes so many problems. We are Americans, or Germans, or Mexicans, Christians, Jewish, atheists, unaffiliated and on and on. These aren’t real differences, inherent differences but thought invented differences, psychological differences that keep us divided. Nationalism and organized religion are two of the most destructive inventions of psychological thinking that is causing so much confusion, hatred and war.
Apparently, the division is necessary for the Immigration departments of the respective countries that need to govern their societies and provide for their citizens. I am a member of my golf club and you are not. The division between you and me is invented to ensure you don’t get to use club facilities meant for me. There is nothing confusing about this and the purpose is not to cause hatred. If you are not careful in the reading of Krishnamurti’s teaching, you will create a lot of grief for yourself and others.