The inner and the outer

Let’s be careful not to drift back into the familiar. There is first of all an entirely different kind of response, which is non-verbal. Then follows the explanation or the verbal translation of the non-verbal. So am I rooted in the verbal or the non-verbal?

I haven’t anywhere mentioned that I am separate from it. You can read my reply again. :- :thinking:

Then what is calling it disorder?

Disorder is a common label to a particular category of thoughts.

We cannot talk about ever thought, which creates sensation.

Hope you understand. :slightly_smiling_face:

You are missing it.

Come back to something else. Are you Viswa?

Yes, good observation.

Hans fantasizes about the taste of ice cream. Poor boy, he’s never actually tasted it, just read about it in books, so he’s terribly excited. He’s also the type of boy who lives in his head, lost in thought and feeling. One day an ice cream cart comes to his village. Hans’s imagination goes crazy with visions of what it will be like to finally taste ice cream. Then he takes a taste, and for a moment pure experience reigns. Then, quickly, the words and visions return: fantastic, transcendent, it’s like flavored snow mixed with fresh milk! And the words and visions are so pleasing to him, so familiar and comforting, that he completely forgets about the actual ice cream and lets it melt away. But that doesn’t matter to him, because he now has a fresh storehouse of sensual memories to wile away his hours with.

That’s what it’s like for me. Words do not serve experience, experience serves words. The payoff is the word, the experience is just proof of concept. (I’m exaggerating, but not that much.)

Practical persons talk based on experience only. When I talked with electricians, plumbers, and mechanics their conversation is completely based on experience.

We haven’t said that rocks or trees or animals or even human beings are conscious. What we are saying is that the entire universe is consciousness. Therefore to say one is conscious of what one is thinking has very little meaning. It has become totally unimportant.

So we are rooted in the verbal. That’s clear, isn’t it?

I am largely rooted in the verbal, yes. I can’t speak for you or we.

Experience is proof of concept pretty much nails it for me. But it’s subtle, the joy of proof of concept is … an experience!

Why not? What makes you so special and unique that you can speak only for yourself? We are human beings rooted in the verbal. We are the mouthpiece of thought. And thought can only talk about the familiar, the known; it can’t ever break free of the past. Therefore, in order to find out exactly and accurately what we are now and if there any such thing as an intelligence which is undistorted by thought, what shall we do? This is our single most important psychological problem. So what shall we do about it?

Why you are “interested” or “desiring” to ‘find out’ - “who you are” and “what is Intelligence”?

By finding it out, what you gonna do then for rest of your limited life?. Freedom?

There is no ‘freedom’ in ‘finding’. The ‘finding’ itself is bound to ‘limitations’. You cannot find ‘who you are’. But you can reject ‘who you are not’.

Why you are ‘identifying’ yourself as “rooted in verbal”? By making this statement/identification, you are moving away from “what is”.

It’s like saying, the “sun rises in the east”, when it is actually present above/east/west/somewhere else. The ‘rising’ is a “movement” which is not important, to see what it is actually. Likewise, the ‘identification’ of myself as “deep rooted in verbal/conflict/self/sufferings” - makes you bound towards it and no freedom is felt. You don’t know who you are, then why you are ‘identifying’ as this/that, based on ‘time’, i.e. what happened till “now” but not “now”. If you are ‘sticking’ to time i.e. what happened/happening/will happen, you are not free.

Just “STOP” identifying/moving/thoughts/questions/desires/interest/life/time/self/place/sufferings/anger/emotions/feelings. Just “STOP”. Then you can feel ‘freedom’. Then you are not bound to anything anymore.

Also, The true ‘understanding’ is that, "one cannot understand the ‘NOW/Intelligence’, but can only understand the ‘past’, which is useless, so stop understanding ‘Now/intelligence/truth’. It is not a finding out ‘thing’.

By the way,

It is “useless” to find out who ‘he/Viswa/Krishnamurti/anyother person’ is.

Because this is our single most important psychological problem.

Why? Is there a consciousness separate from thought? This is the whole point.

First, why you identify “I/self” as a ‘problem’.

What is a ‘problem’?. A problem is meant that, something is ‘wrong’.

We don’t know “who am I” and how you ‘identified’ ‘me’ as a ‘wrong/problematic’ thing.

And also don’t identify “sufferings” as a problem. It is just an effect/consequence of “desires/attachments”. Also don’t identify ‘desire/attachments’ as a “problem/wrong’ thing.

Only when you “STOP” identifying/thoughts//moving/etc…, only then, you are free to “watch/feel” everything, as it is. Then Intelligence flows.

And ‘you’ are no more.

I can’t think or feel what another person is thinking and feeling. No one, barring telepathy, can. So it’s at best a decent generalization, at worst a highly flawed one for me to speak for anyone but myself.

Thought can help set the scene and interpret the results. Objective scientific-ish observation is useful, but its division of what it observes into subject/object limits it. Intuition is powerful, though open to being distorted by thought.

And so on, and so forth … behold a mind busily at work trying to solve a puzzle of its own making!

That’s why it makes sense that thought must be “denied” in this realm. That it is always a movement away from what is or whatever way you want to express that. Its very movement is a movement away.

Thought’s response to this:

Yeah, well okay, I see the point, but … … … maybe I’m just not doing it right, maybe I need to try a different approach, maybe I’ll get it on the next 1,234,567th try, maybe I, maybe I, maybe l … … …

Sure, until it sees that it’s ‘approach’ is to always get somewhere else. To solve the ‘problem’ in the ‘near future’. When it sees that it is the root of the problem, the root of conditioning, that it’s ‘search’ for freedom, truth, happiness, etc is always a search for an image that it has created and that doesn’t exist. Then it can stop. Then it can leave the brain empty, able to receive the New.