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The inner and the outer

Psychologically, ‘disorder’ is the past operating in the present, isn’t it? Carrying the burden of past experience, nationality, religious beliefs, traditions, knowledge, images, judgement, condemnation, like, dislike, fears, etc and meeting the present with all that. In the mind, disorder is the continuous presence of this stagnant energy of the past.

“Incomplete action”.
Our actions will occur based on the decision of mind. If the mind is not able to make a decision, then there is conflict happening inside frequently. Obviously this is disorder in the psychological structure of person. There is a lot of division happening inside the mind. Inside many different chain of thoughts will happen, very easily.

I have been in this state for some part of my life. Now, the intensity has reduced drastically. Thanks to Jiddu. :slight_smile:

If the mind is aware of beliefs, attachments and the whole business out of it. Then it has started understanding the consequences of it. Now the mind is aware of those traps.

Knowledge comes from learning and memory. Intelligence, my understanding of it, draws (intelligently!) upon knowledge, learning, and memory … but also draws upon something else ‘beyond’ them.

The awareness (observation) of ‘what is’ without naming, judgement, evaluation, etc is not the energy of the past. K has called it the energy of “silence”. It stills the movement of thought which is the past. Psychological thought is a movement away from what is.


I haven’t mentioned energy in my reply.

“It still the movement of thought which is the past”. I agree that.

If one questions oneself, about the state of mind. In that questioning there is watchfulness. After that there will be change in the thought pattern.

Try it.

The “watchfulness” (observation) if it is without judgement is of a different energy than the energy of thought. The energy of thought is the past, it is dead, stagnant, patterned, conditioned, etc. The new ‘energy’, call it what you will, dissolves the thought into its silence.

Now there is some similarity in understanding. I may perceive this whole activity in a different way, but a kind of silence may occur. Sometimes the is a complete change in the sequence of thoughts, after watching.

Thank you

The “silence” IS the observation without judgement or condemnation, it stays with what is. Thought is always a movement away.
Staying with what is, without naming what is , is the ending of it. Then there is ‘order’.

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It is true. I think one should be honest to oneself. :slight_smile:

We are all psychologically separate.

You have omitted to mention freedom. Are you leaving that there too? Perhaps you would prefer to hear something from me that chimes with your beliefs and opinions; and I’m afraid I have nothing like that to offer. Those ideas we have of ourselves, the world and other people are our only illusions, all of them self-created. Aren’t you tired of all that nonsense?

So what is right now the state of the mind? Do you call it order or disorder? Do you call it anything at all?

How will you ever know the difference? While there is any link between knowledge and intelligence, knowledge must always be the deciding factor and intelligence will always remain partial and selective.

What are we now? That is our question. Knowledge will carry on forever providing its own shoddy little answers. Therefore we remain shoddy little people.

Then carry on fighting.

If I want to do something about the disorder in my mind, I have to assume that there is an orderly part within me (true self, awareness…). So I split myself internally into a messy and an orderly part. Isn’t this division the source of all disorder?

Another way to change my disorder would be to wait for a liberation from the outside, for a Savior or a redemptive power (Jesus, Amida, Insight…). But isn’t this waiting, isn’t time the source of all disorder?

So what happens to disorder when there is only it?

When taking in this question, the familiar voice offers the familiar responses: I am awareness, a frame in a movie, life, somebody, nobody.

But if I stay with the question after the voice has had its say, an entirely different kind of response appears, a wordless feeling of a physical and mental presence, a rooted being.

Do you call it to order or disorder?
You said in the previous reply “Psychologically, isn’t disorder any incomplete action?”
I gave an explanation. That if one could not do their actions, then there is disorder inside. Of course, it is a disorder.

The moment it is our own line of enquiry we have abandoned freedom. Why aren’t we together enquiring? Then we can look very carefully at what we mean by this strange word ‘consciousness’, which has puzzled philosophers and scientists for centuries. While we remain apart it will always be about a separate explanation, mine or yours, and we shall be forever adding to the puzzle; but consciousness is something that defies explanation. That’s the beauty of it, isn’t it? It is what is there when all the noisiness of thought has subsided. It is in the trees and on the stillness of the water.

It is only disorder while you remain separate from it. But the fragment of yourself that identifies and labels disorder is itself caught in the same disorderly field. Do you see what Klaus is saying?