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The inner and the outer

I understand what you’re saying, and I think it’s a valid point, but I see things a bit differently. I see change/impermanence as the essence of existence. Our obsession with becoming is a reflection of this. Goals are like stepping stones in an endless flow, temporary points of relative rest. We always look to the future because every fiber of our being is aware on some level of this endless process of change. Do you understand what I mean?

It may be true that “every fiber of our being is aware on some level of this endless process of change”,
but we’re still obsessed with getting what we want, which is imagined, and this means we’re less aware of what actually is than we are of our notions of what-should-be.

Yes, I think you’re right.

Do you see that you are creating now another problem? First of all, you are perceiving the statement about direct perception as something separate from you. Therefore any answer one offers to your question must get caught and tangled in that space between us. But is there space between us? Psychologically, are we separate at all?

What is it that we are obsessed with becoming? Apparently, we want to be out of the flow of existence, at a point of rest which is unaffected by change. So life is all around us and yet we want to be out of it. That’s really what we are saying, isn’t it?

Klaus: The core of consciousness that we immediately seek inside, “within us”, is not there, is not inside, but outside. The core of consciousness is: the environment, the world, the outside speaks to us. Perception or awareness are something that we immediately seek within, “within ourselves”.KFA German forum

There is no core because the entire universe is consciousness. Thought seeks a core as it seeks the core of every problem; and then the very seeking itself becomes a core of ideation, which is the me. When there is no seeking there is no core. But thought must find the core or the cause of all disorder, which is the supreme function of thought: to bring order. So can thought bring order instantly? This sounds contradictory, but there is a way through it.

Yes sir, with thought only order can take place. I see that by questioning we can dig deep into the roots of our goals, imaginations, conflicts and others. Which is still a thought.

“Jiddu said that mind should start knowing with humility.”

I don’t think there is complete order in my psychological structure yet.:slight_smile:

Please share you views

We want to become ‘better’ than we feel we are now: happier, stronger, more intelligent, more skilled, more (whatever is seen as better). Along with this we want to experience something that feels new, a new ability, new body, new profession, new holiday location, new car, new me.

We don’t want to feel that everything is changing all the time. Our brains can’t process this, it’s too much uncertainty, too little anchor.

Our need for stability manifests in the patterns we adopt and the feeling of fixedness we surround ourselves with: house, job, relationship, identity, etc.

Our recognition of change (the flow of life) manifests in our thousand daily urges to become.


To be frank, I started listening to Jiddu with some motive inside. To become something get identified with the one which is great.

I recognized the consequences of such a base in our thought process, after listening to one of the videos of Jiddu. It is very difficult to be with no motive, the mind may take sides very easily. I do not know how I will handle in my life. :slight_smile:

I can say that having a motive or trying to become something just cripples the mind.


Entirely false.

The function of the brain which houses thought is to maintain security. This fear of psychological insecurity will do anything, will say anything, will even suggest that order is the essence of its activity - all of which is entirely false. The activity of thought is the essence of disorder. Even a disordered mind can believe it is in order.

The core of the consciousness of anyone is the self. To equate the “self” with what is outside is the false logic of thought. That would be tantamount to saying that one is the tree, the environment, the stars, the universe. In other words, such activity of thought is also known as identification. Not only is that ridiculous, or “silly” as K has said, it is the epitome of arrogance.

A way… a path, right? Then, there can never be freedom, and one is caught again in the web of thought.

I’m pretty sure this is true for all of us! We are creatures of motive, we do things for a reason, though we might not be aware of this reason at the time. There’s nothing wrong imo, indeed there’s a lot that is very right, with beginning the spiritual search to achieve some kind of greatness. Eventually, of course, one begins to gain insight into the nature of this motivation, to see how it makes us suffer.

Yes, definitely! But in my experience it can also energize and focus the mind. Not for you?

Only for sometime. It is like a candle, I think.:slight_smile:

It’s clear from your postings here that you are highly motivated to learn, to understand.

Does the energy arising from this desire to learn come and go for you like a candle flame?

I think there is “Will”, inside.

I am not sure completely. After some time, I may get the answer to this question.

In this forum, there are people who are serious about what they say. I think this is a must for learning something.

Thank you :slight_smile:

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I think it’s good to be not sure and still looking. :slight_smile:

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Yes, we are, and you know that because its implied in everything you say.

That’s right. There is only disorder. It isn’t partially order and partially disorder. So what will you as thought do about the disorder?

Trying to put things in order. Such that the “I”, will get free from all those traps.

So what are we now? Will the feeling about it tell me the truth of what I am? If I feel sad, afraid, lonely, whose truth is that? Just as bliss lies in an imagined future, doesn’t sorrow lie in an imagined past?

But that’s what you do all the time when you disagree with someone, when you get frustrated, angry, upset by another person or by an incident. Every opinion you hold is an opinion about what is happening outside. When we say the entire universe is consciousness, it means the self is unimportant. It has nothing whatsoever to do with identification. Every mortal thing is sacred.