Saturday January 21, 2023 Kinfonet Dialogue: Sorrow Revisited

As mentioned in the last dialogue, there may be times when we want to stick with a topic for more than one session. This week we’ll do so in revisiting the topic of “Sorrow” with which I don’t think we finished two dialogues ago.

Krishnamurti on Sorrow:

Sorrow is grief, uncertainty, the feeling of complete loneliness. There is the sorrow of death, the sorrow of not being able to fulfil oneself, the sorrow of not being recognized, the sorrow of loving and not being loved in return. There are innumerable forms of sorrow, and it seems to me that without understanding sorrow, there is no end to conflict, to misery, to the everyday travail of corruption and deterioration. There is conscious sorrow, and there is also unconscious sorrow, the sorrow that seems to have no basis, no immediate cause. Most of us know conscious sorrow, and we also know how to deal with it. Either we run away from it through religious belief or we rationalize it, or we take some kind of drug, whether intellectual or physical; or we bemuse ourselves with words, with amusements, with superficial entertainment. We do all this, and yet we cannot get away from conscious sorrow. Then there is the unconscious sorrow that we have inherited through the centuries. Man has always sought to overcome this extraordinary thing called sorrow, grief, misery; but even when we are superficially happy and have everything we want, deep down in the unconscious there are still the roots of sorrow. So when we talk about the ending of sorrow, we mean the ending of all sorrow, both conscious and unconscious. To end sorrow one must have a very clear, very simple mind. Simplicity is not a mere idea. To be simple demands a great deal of intelligence and sensitivity. - J. Krishnamurti

It would be a marvelous thing if in the process of your listening - unemotionally, not sentimentally - to what is being said…you could really understand sorrow and be totally free of it; because then there would be no self-deception, no illusions, no anxieties, no fear, and the brain could function clearly, sharply, logically. And then, perhaps, one would know what love is. - Book of Life

Dialogue Format:

  1. Opening comments

  2. Reading of the quote

  3. 5 minutes of silence

  4. Dialogue

  5. Closing comments

Zoom Link:

Date: 1st and 3rd Saturdays of each month

Time: 5 PM Greenwich Mean Time (7 AM HST, 9 AM PST, 11 AM CST, 12 PM EST, 5 PM GMT, 6 PM CET, 10:30 PM IST)*

Duration: 2 1/2 hours

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Sounds like sorrow is always there, though we are not always conscious of it. It may take a life event to bring sorrow to the surface. What is the function of sorrow in humanity? In the case of loneliness, which is a sorrow, how does it function for the human being? Does it activate an increase in social interaction thus relieving the sorrow? Social beings that we are, survive better together. Is sorrow part of our survival mechanism?

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I don’t see sorrow as necessary for human cooperation or connection. I see it as an unavoidable outcome of realizing the tragedy of what we’ve evolved into. I think something more like mutual need is the driver for connection in the survival sense.

Are you asking if emotional connection is needed for survival? as much as food and security provided by a group?

The word Sorrow can be used to describe the realisation of what we are, and at the same time what we are.

We are the movement of suffering made matter and acting out, creating more sorrow by our actions - and the seeing of this tragedy is also great sorrow.

In underlying lacy patterns of energy, permeating the cellular through the space that connects humanity, sorrow is accompanied by empathy, compassion and love to sustain the species. As an indicator of what one values, sorrow prompts change.

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In another dialogue someone pointed out there’s freedom in “seeing” the little space we’re boxed into. Is seeing this sorrow “on the other side of the fence” love?

Maybe seeing the permeation of sorrow IS the change. It was interesting what someone said in yesterday’s dialogue about sound: starting off as vibrations in the air, coming to the ears and affecting, permeating the lacey pathways of the whole conditioned organism and triggering all of it’s triggers. If one is listening deeply what in all of this is real? It seems like all of it is.

Silence is freedom from the real.

There may be - Isn’t the rest of the sentence : “Freedom in seeing the little space that we’re boxed into, how it is blindly affecting the rest of infinity, and recoiling in horror”?

Kissing the sorrow is accepting its presence without being its slave nor its victim.

My Sorrow is the need for change, the desire for progress. Unmotivated Sorrow is compassion.