Right Action and the Self Dialogue - Sat Aug 26, 2023 (Sun Aug 27 in some places)

Kinfonet Discussion
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Right Action and the Self 4th Saturday (Sunday) Dialogue

Jay Fisher will not be able to facilitate this month and asked me to fill in.

However, he provided the topic, Listening and Meditation, and a Krishnamurti quote, which are attached to this post. I would suggest that this would be an opportunity to actually engage in meditative listening as we explore the topic.

If you want to receive regular announcements for Jay’s monthly 4th Saturday dialogue, please email him to get on his email list: jayfisher7@icloud.com

DO NOT REPLY to this email. The Kinfonet system is not set up to receive replies. Please email Jay directly or if you have any questions about this coming Saturday, please email John at melog21210@gmail.com

See you Saturday,

John

Dialogue question: How are Listening and Meditation Connected?

Krishnamurti on Listening

I do not know if you have ever tried to listen to your wife or husband, to your children, to the car that goes by, to the movement of your own thought and your own feeling. Out of that listening, in which there is no action at all, no intention, no interpretation, just the very act of listening brings about a tremendous revolution at the very root of the mind. But most of us are so unaccustomed to listening. If we hear anything contrary to our habitual thought, we get terribly agitated. If one of our pet ideals is kicked, we get terribly excited. We have our own vested interest in ideas, in property, in our own experience and knowledge, and when any of that is questioned, we lose balance and resist anything that is being said. J. Krishnamurti. From Public Talk 5, Saanen, 21 July 1964

Thought on participating in the dialogue process:

The insights and deeper understandings which often emerge in the dialogue process are not separate from, nor more important than, the relationship of the participants. A dialogue rooted in affection is vastly different from a dialogue of the intellect. This affection is an outcome of listening, and requires a suspension of judgment.

Silver Spring Dialogue Group Statement on Dialogue

Date: 4th Saturday of every month
(or Sunday following the 4th Saturday for E Asia, OZ, and NZ)

Time: 7:30 PM UTC, see time in your zone below

Duration: 2 hours

Zoom link to join: Launch Meeting - Zoom

Times in various time zones:
Hawaii 9:30 AM
Alaska 11:30 AM
Pacific US 12:30 PM
Central US 2:30 PM
Eastern US 3:30 PM
Britain 8:30 PM
Central Europe 9:30 PM
Eastern Europe 10:30 PM
India 1:00 AM
Malaysia 3:30 AM
Central Australia 5:00 AM
Eastern Australia 5:30 AM
New Zealand 7:30 AM

@sdg

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Happening soon! Zoom link within.

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Spaciousness allows us to embrace the words.

Or like the Zen master said : "You are like this cup — so full of ideas that nothing more will fit in. Come back to me with an empty cup.”

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If we want to discover an awareness that is unrelated to thinker, how will we discover.
Thinker is only on level of opposites, division, conflict. But there is another state in which there is no opposite, no conflict, no division.
So how to discover that?
Thinker will make anything as divided, opposite, seeking. It is not whole.
So how to discover that which is whole?
It’s tricky because thinker is not whole. Thinker is will, doing, not being. So how does the switch happen from thinker to awareness, opposites to no conflict, thought to silent awareness which is being, doing to being. Difficult to say how it happens. It is not doing. When thinker does nothing, it disappears in being, the being which is true conflictless awareness that is space, silence, no conflict.
For the thinker it will forever be a mystery how that switch happens because in non-activity it disappears into blissful silence

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In the calm and silence, there is no call for discrimination, discrimination has no place.

First we need to see why we must make way for silence.

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The would-be discoverer of “an awareness that is unrelated to thinker” is the thinker, the thinker is thought, and thought can only discover more words, images, and concepts to utilize. It cannot discover anything beyond its mechanical limitation. It cannot discover “another state” in which there is no opposite, no conflict, no division."

No discovery is possible until thought knows what thought is, what its limits are. There is no discovery without self-knowledge, and it’s for lack of self-knowledge that thought attempts to find another state instead of finding out what it, thought, actually is.

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I feli it was something valuable to share, so I posted. There is not much seeking through words and discussion left for me.

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Thought can stay with lack of self knowledge,why does it attempts to find another state instead ?

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Thought being itself the ‘past’ can’t grasp that this present moment (unfolding) is actually all there is! Can’t grasp that there is no ‘controller. Can’t understand that this moment is and always will be the ‘unknown’. Thought can ‘describe’ it but can’t ‘live’ it. Can image it but can’t ‘move’ with it. Can’t NOT “mind what happens. Can’t ever be ‘free’?

The Unknown that we are living through is the Presence itself. The thought’s ‘unknown’ is nothing but fairytales and good / bad dreams.

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No worries Adeen, its all good - humans feel very much the same, are motivated by the same kind of brain.
We also want to react by expressing what we feel is correct - we also are emotionally affected by what we perceive (ie. other people’s replies in this case).

In dialogue, if there is anything to observe (or seek) its is whether communication between 2 different centers/selves/people is possible - ie. whether relationship is possible or what am I in relationship with?. Do I really see you? Do you see me?

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Because it habitually presumes to know more than it actually knows. Were thought to be completely honest, it would acknowledge how little it actually knows, and how much it presumes.