It appears that the movement ‘black lives matter’ as well as ‘blue lives matter’ are of the same energy of a distraction from wholly and sanely living. What a disgraceful behavior of humanity.
Is this pure observation, conclusion or fact ?
Does self want to protest the cold blooded murder of human beings because of their skin colour, or address the cause of all such cold blooded murder, of all killing? Self is natural born killer - not the human animal, but self is. Killing is in its constitution. The only way to stop self being that, is to stop self. I am the murder and the mayhem, and there s no answer to it in terms of me.
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The presence of ‘self’ then is the presence of ‘evil’. We sense that it can be gone ‘beyond’ and the human being ‘come into its own’. It seems though like a race that each day the weapons of oppression become more efficient and deadly. That so much destruction will occur…The ‘self’ is blind to its self.
I think I know what you’re getting at Wim. Focusing on a fragment of humanity…separating Black lives from Blue lives from White or green lives is just perpetuating division. Division which has caused the problems in the first place. Yet, some will talk of the struggle for civil rights that took place in the 1960’s led in part by Martin Luther King. Without that kind of focus, Blacks would have remained segregated and second class citizens…not even allowed to use the same water fountain as Whites in some parts of the country.
Yes, isn’t that suggesting that this struggle is needed to progress in live, but it seems only a change on the surface, not deeply, otherwise those policeman would act different and the protesters wouldn’t going from peaceful to plundering and the president wouldn’t invite the man provoking before his house with a gun or this man did not have the feeling he had to protect something and there would be nothing to protest against if the change were profound, but the fact one is observing speaks otherwise, what a mess we are living.
None of those; it’s your opinion.
Self is an illusion. You can say anything you want about it because there’s nothing there but your imagination.
You’re a prophet of doom.
J Krishnamurti, extract.
"So first we divide and then we join them together. I say to myself, why do you divide it first? And you say, ‘Well, I can’t see the whole’. How do you know you can’t see the whole? Is it because you have divided it and you are conditioned by this division, which is you have accepted a tradition that it is divided. "
On being a light to oneself.
Public Discussion 4 Saanen, Switzerland - 31 July 1976
and this is surely yours !
So an illusion causes so much strife?
Hi Peter,
Do you see any division in the original post ?
It’s an observation of facts taking place without condeming any of the partaking parts and my feeling of it.
Don’t underestimate the power of suggestion.
Please go into it. It is deeper than a personal perception. Race, nationality, politics, issues, morality, all this is a division.
That’s fragmentation. It all stems from the same thing: egocentricity
Hi Peter,
Isn’t it the question if it is a personal perception or a fact of live at this instance?
The only peronal is maybe the remark that it is a ‘disgraceful behavior of humanity’ but even that could be a fact.
Division as the source of this, do we see this because of knowledge of the teaching ?
Can we undo this knowledge or is this based on
the alternative is not known because we’ve read K. and did he opened our eyes or colored our minds and if that is the case is that a problem ?
I think it’s all of them. Politics or social reforms and so manifestations will never solve the basic problem of human behaviour. “Stay away from politics” said K. but even without K. any person who has opened his eyes knows that politics is utterly futile and destructive because it’s the outcome of the ego. Essentially politics -or political movements- is a battle for power even when it’s considered the “right side”.
I’ve discussed with an American supporter of “Black lives matter” in a different forum and I told him, you don’t want justice you want revenge. Political revolutions or social battles never created justice, yet we still think that fighting for justice will solve the problem. I remember K. was very critical about Gandhi and his battle. He once said (more or less if my memory is good): nothing has really changed in India, before you were exploited by the British now you are exploited by your politicians.
I think that the basic problem with black people in America is that they cannot identify themselves with a country which was created by the whites. All the reference figures, historical personalities, scientific discovers, etc. are mostly white. And that’s why now they are trying to find supposedly black inventors or as such - Today Biden said that the light bulb was invented by a black person who worked with Edison - and once I read the affirmation of a black activist who said that Beethoven was black. All that shows their need to have a reference figure with who to identify themselves. This desperate necessity of identification brings a destructive behaviour which is evident in the extremist movements. It seems we are not capable of creating a society without the process of identification and so without conflicts.
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That the mind can be empty of all this desire to be, to attain, to become, etc. and still maintain a harmonious relationship with thought when it is needed, when it is useful, is the message K. brought, I’d say. That the mind has been ‘usurped’ by thought / time. It happened “because it could” as Bohm, I think, put it. No other animal had that possibility.
The most reactive elements on the one team identify with the oppression of others and are fearful at not getting to bring that oppression to bear still, and the other team and their supporters cannot identify with something based on their oppression, and which seeks it still. They can never be sufficiently quiescent, never be servile enough to guarantee their life. They are to be killed if they complain, and they are to be killed if they do not. So how is the fear of Team Kill to be dissolved when no innocent activity, no degree of compliance can stop the desire to kill anyway, because, better safe and shoot, than sorry. And when I see how extremely dangerous self is, what is my own response to being self?
If the mind can be empty of all desire and carry on a relationship with thought, what is the mind’s function? What do you think the mind is, if not thought, with all its faults and malfunction?
It seems to me that K’s message is that thought is incoherent because, after creating the illusion of the thinker, I, it got confused and began mistaking itself ( a function) for the person it created, forgetting that it is its creator and sustainer. This notion of an empty mind just adds to the confusion.
To put it simply, the mind, thought, created the myth of I, the person, and, seduced by the drama and entertainment of its creation, forgot what a humble, fallible process it is, and identifies with its creation.