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Is there a non-ego I?


We need someone to express, what is there inside the mind.

Thanks to Jiddu, for unifying us here. :slight_smile:

Yes! A rose by any other name, right? :slight_smile:

Gone (in body) for 35+ years … and still uniting people! :slight_smile:

Jiddu took his shape in us to some extent. He is there.

Coming back to main topic.

Is there a non ego I?

I think it is there, when there is only perception and action but no thought.

I think this is a great way to look at it.

Let’s run with this. If thought-free perception and action are there when a non-ego I is there, does that mean this I is thought-free perception and action? Or are these attributes of something that lies deeper?

I am thinking like that only, I do not know when this case will hold in my system, but In such case there is no room for “I”.

The main reason, I got such a thought is by considering the people who live in jungles for their entire life. They will have extraordinary levels of perceiving ability, as their actions are instant. They hunt for food but they don’t know they will get food until they kill some beast. Therefore, it demands extraordinary levels of attention to the surroundings.

Another case is “blind people”. They will have extraordinary levels of attention towards the surrounding environment. In their cases there is I but non-ego.

Hey this is just a speculation, I am not clear with this idea.

How do you know?..

You got me, I don’t. I have an image of selfless love as a “good” thing. But I don’t know if I’ve ever experienced it.

It seems too narrow a view of Love, doesn’t it, as something you can ‘experience’?

Yes, especially if you see love as nondual = non-experienceable from a subject-experiences-object pov.

Why do you say blind people have no ego?

They are too much in paying attention to the surroundings, keeps them in the state of attentiveness for maximum time. They do have self, but their inability is having an effect in their psychological structure. I did not witness this in everyone I saw but it is just a speculation. It could be wrong also.

It could be that “selfless love” has no memory of what it does, since it has nothing to gain or lose.

“Gain or lose” may just be a human thing.

Interesting. Would it be appropriate to enlarge the scope:

Might all self-less seeing/doing record no memories?

Warning: Speculation follows!

If self-less seeing/doing records no memories, then the brain of a person living self-lessly might be less teeming with data/information/knowledge than conventional brains. This might, in turn, free up the brain’s energy to be used for the demanding task of seeing/doing self-lessly. And that bugaboo intelligence might ensue.

Too many mights?

I never thought about it this way. I’ve worked with a number of deaf people, and egolessness doesn’t seem to be part of their way of being. But it could be different with a person who can’t see, since the visual seems to be our dominant sensory field.

So then what are the candidates for a non-ego I?

Consciousness, awareness
Atman, brahman, all-that-is, higher power, God
Thought-ego masquerading as a non-ego I
Other … (please add to the list)

Shall we go through these, one by one, as if encountering them for the first time? Or is that too tedious and dreary and dualistic a task?

Okay… That is the reason why I said it is just speculation. It will become a case study for us :slight_smile:

As you worked with deaf people, is there any anger-related aspects are in them?

Just asking ,

please share your view

No more than in hearing people. But I was in a teacher/student relationship with most of the deaf people I knew, so I don’t have the ‘insider info’ that would come with having deaf people as peers and friends.

Have you noticed anger issues with deaf people?

I witnessed one person, who works in a tea shop near my hometown. Whenever I go and have some tea, my uncle used to say that deaf people will have more anger. In addition, there was an Indian film, in which the protagonist is deaf and portrayed as an angry young man. Now, you said that you have worked with deaf people, because of this coincidence, I asked you.

Hope you understood my point. :slight_smile: