Is the ground change?

K: Yes, let’s call it the ground movement.

That sounds like an earthquake.

It could be earth shattering.Here’s snippets of K and Bohm on the ground:
Conversation 2

DB: Are you saying there is a reality beyond the universal mind,

or something?

K: Yes. Sir, are we playing a game of peeling off one thing after another?

Like an onion skin, and at the end there is only tears and nothing else?

K: We said that.

DB: But what you mean – the energy is beyond the universal mind?

K: I would say yes, because the universal mind is part of that energy.

So is there something beyond, beyond the cosmic order, mind?

K: I don’t know how to put it that way.

DB: Yes. But are you trying to suggest there is something… there is that which is beyond there, which is the emptiness – the ground of the emptiness is?

K: Yes. And can we keep that same kind of watchfulness

in which there is no illusion, to find out – not find out –

for that which is beyond emptiness to come down to earth? You understand what I mean?

Come down to earth in the sense to be communicated. You follow what I mean?..

Sir, what is beyond emptiness? Is it silence?

DB: Isn’t that similar to emptiness really?

K: Oh, yes, sir, there is something beyond all this. Probably it can never be put into words.

And that is part of our conditioning, and so on, all that. Now, if you go beyond all that.

What are we trying to do, sir?

DB: Well, I think communicate regarding this absolute, this beyond.

K: I removed, I took away that word immediately.

DB: What – whatever it is, the beyond, what is beyond emptiness and silence.

K: Beyond all that. There is, beyond all that.

DB: The difficulty is…

K: All that is something, part of an immensity. Sir, that emptiness and silence and energy is immense, it is really immeasurable.

But there is something that’s – I am using the word ‘greater’ than that.

I can’t… I don’t know.

DB: You mean, in the sense you are using the beginning of everything as the ending of everything.

K: Yes. Right? You would say that?

DB: Yes, if we take the ground from which it comes, it must be the ground to which it falls.

K: Falls. That’s right. That is the ground.

DB: All right.

K: Upon which – not upon, please…

DB: Well, that is a figure of speech.

K: Yes, figure of speech – upon which everything exists, space…


K:…energy, emptiness, silence, all that is on that – not ground, you understand?

DB: No, I mean, it is just a figure, a metaphor.

K: There is nothing beyond that.

DB: This ground has no cause. I said the ground has no cause.

K: No cause, of course. If we have a cause, then we have…

DB: Yes, we have another ground.

K: Yes. No, no, that is the beginning and the ending.

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Promises, promises, the greater beyond–keeps them coming back.