Unless one of us is outside of being, outside of consciousness right now, then you and I are in the only thing that can possibly count as the same place. This forum is a pure abstraction is it not, having only a virtual and symbolic existence within that consciousness? If consciousness is a shared activity, and yours and my sense of separate existence only a notional point within that, then regarding the other as something whose precise position or feeling has to be located by me, is actually reinforcing that divide, and only serves to cover up the fact that no such thing is needed.
The activity being proposed here is not really about finding out, it is about covering up. Itâs about giving myself a role, and keeping myself in the game. Were everything psychological underpinning it to be dropped, awareness of what is would then be, but is that what is really wanted? Is that what all the concern and all the effort is about?
We as an idea, and we as an actuality are completely different things, and we as an actuality is not under anyoneâs control, anyoneâs management, or subject to anyoneâs direction. This is what makes for all the difficulty here. Realising all that there is to my attempts at managing the situation, and the purpose that really serves, and dissembling it, is what allows nominally separate entities to meet themselves. No one can make that happen, nor prevent that happening, and seeing my usual approach as redundant in all this, is a test of what my real concern is.
All right, weâll find out if we are covering up; it comes to the same thing. But if you are arriving with all your conclusions and arguments laid out in advance, none of this is possible.
Fine, but again there is this by the book thing of immediately giving other conclusion, argument, and anything else required for security. Given consciousness is a property common to all, and is general in nature, anyone so disposed can look and see, and again that is not under anyoneâs control. I may not be seeing what is because I do not want to see it, but I exercise no control whatsoever on anyone else seeing it, so calling other conclusion wonât help matters any.
Very well, please tell me what I have said that you consider a conclusion, and please tell me why exactly you consider it so. Ordinarily you are someone who regularly invokes the use of we and our, so I take it that there is an understanding informing its use, and that it is not just an intellectual idea that cannot hold up across a series of exchanges with an other.
Are you sure about that? It seems to me that we are actually controlled by our commitment to what-should-be and its opposite. We are conflicted and desperate for resolution without a clue as to how to bring it about.
There never has been any precondition necessary. The attempt to introduce one is just a manifestation of control. Strictly speaking there isnât even any start involved, nor any requirement for together. There are no locked doors to consciousness until one is put in place out of fear.
What I am talking about here is what is involved in seeing the truth about our shared consciousness. The self is obsessed with trying to exercise control over it through suppressing the sight of it in itself or trying to mange its expression in others. Concern about a what-should-be is the attempt at mounting control, and it is only in realising the subtle nature of control and relinquishing it that the true nature of consciousness can be seen, but that ordinarily is not something self wants to do.
Donât complicate it. You see yourself driving too fast, you slow down. You see yourself upsetting someone and you feel compassion. You see you drink too much, too often, and get into trouble, and you stop drinking.
What I know about love or emotions is just what the ordinary person knows. I will just be reiterating all that stuff society believes, or has a theory about. When I seriously get in touch with myself, it is not any of that stuff, and there is a sense of discovery, a wonderment, not knowing anything to say it is this or that. Then I might ask, as a topic of discussion, just as a matter of interest, is love an emotion? I wonât get to myself through these questions, but it might be something to talk about.
Does there not need to be a quantum leap or shift now to a different point of view? Consider what there is awareness of here: I am in being as the consciousness I am, along with a sense of other than myself, which is something that gets reinforced in reality ordinarily by the appearance of physical separation. Then I am the concern to try and understand what that all is, and for which I try to yoke in others. To that end I designate an entirely arbitrary point as a start or beginning, and then by constructing a question I call our question, have the other go round and round in it under my direction.
Question: Why do I think this type of response has anything at all to do with the fact of finding myself in being right now, and seeing what that actually is? What part does it play in a greater conscious awareness of things, and what part might it be playing in simply covering things up? When I am a sense we at any depth, and not just intellectually, do I have difficulty in grasping any of this or understanding the point being made? Am I this response at all in a way I cannot effortlessly set aside?
Well yes, I relinquish control is putting me back in control, whereas it is more that something happens to make a difference, and that is the way it gets conceptualised out of habit, but also in part as a verbal shorthand.
You have no idea as to the consciousness you are, while employing we and our? Now why is that? Is there something about the fact our consciousness is general in nature, and not under anyoneâs command and control, which is found troubling? The questions being put here by you under your terms and conditions will not ever address this, and this is never going to go away for anyone, yourself included.