I wonder if it is possible to come upon this quality of unconditional love that K talked about most of his life? I often wonder why this quality has no space to flower in each one of us?
It seems important to ‘hold’ this question, to stay with it. Perhaps any attempt of thought to provide an answer is an escape from the energy of the question?
Sir, I can define what is not love but I cannot define unconditional love and bring it down to some idea.
Sir, the mind in our society is not silent at all to have such a space. Now, the question is how to create silence in the mind?
Usually I, we, as a matter of the way we think, put a lot of importance on ideas and concepts. In my ordinary way of thinking, in the society, with the language, with the day to day affair, I am using ideas and concepts, from religion, or from some tradition, unthinkingly, even if I have nothing to with them. That experience we are having with words and ideas, is mostly overlooked. Probably we take normal life as this occupation we have with our thinking, with the ability to process thought. Do we see that there is an enormous danger in the way the words we are encountering in society, become a part of the way we live, and the way we think? Do we see this way we hear or read something, and it is consumed, and then has an affect?
Hi Sam, I also feel it is very important to hold such questions…even more so when we start to explore this question of ‘unconditional love’ …you see, we may have no real sense of what it actually is at all…and that is OK. We can at least begin. But if I say I ‘know’ all about it then it seems very clear that this cup is already so full of its own knowledge that there is no space, no quality of quietness to even begin to look into this deep question. I wonder if pleasure is part of this unconditional love that K is talking about? Most of us seem to be more interested in talking about pleasure and I wonder if this is an escape from facing the fact that there really is very little love in each one of us? I sometimes wonder if ‘words’ in themselves have become a new source of pleasure?
Now, the question is how to create silence in the mind?
Is ‘thought’ going to bring about this so-called ‘silence’ ?
First of all let us forget about society …do you and I have this quality of space in our daily lives? I feel we need to be very honest about this or we cannot go into it very carefully.
Is there a growing sensitivity to my thinking? If not , why should ‘unnecessary ‘ thought ever end? Why shouldn’t it go on as it has, without end? Thought can see through its own faulty logic at times and correct it. It can see through the folly and danger of belief, nationalism, etc. Can it in the same way become aware that its almost constant movement in the ‘psychological realm ‘ not only creates conflict and suffering with its illusory ‘thinker’ apart from itself but its very presence precludes this possibility of ‘Silence’? Precludes this possible ‘flowering’ in the human brain?
I question this. How can “I” create silence, when “I” am the very essence of noise?
Perhaps the right question is" Is it possible to come across silence?" Without the slightest effort. And isn’t the first step (and maybe the last) to see the fact that I am noise. Completely, utterly, every reaction of the me, every attempt to do something about the problems, the inadequacies of the mind, only continues the noise, does it not?
The only real ‘effort’ then , is the denial of all effort.
The key to discovery of something sacred like love is observing one self all the time and specially during interactions in human relationship. Just be aware onself and stay with true picture, without analysing one self/picture. Do not leave oneself in a territory of no mans land. Be with life in motion in human relationships, which is only love of land.
In reality, the only thing, that exists between all human beings is love. To recognise this fact, one needs observe, why it is not so. The observation it self reveals or unveils true dark nature of life, that humans lead. Actually, there is no stranger in life or existence, all others are extension of one’s own self. Its common human consciousness (meaning all content of our daily activity from wakeup to sleep which is common to all human beings. The shades on content may look different, but common fundamental underlying factor is same( Example: Hurt(X factor)- hurt from thorn, hurt from falling, hurt from someone said bad things to you, etc. The hurt =X is common here. Likewise other emotions).
Do we have that seriousness to observe ourselves all the time( not for a milli second, second, a minute, hour, day, week, month, year and many years). Which should have been essentially a routine and normal activity.
Unfortunately, not to observe our selves have become part of conditioning, or, routine and added to that being indifferent to our selves have also become routine and natural, the mind thinks that to observe one self is not normal. On the contrary it thinks its abnormal. So very rarely or occasionally we observe ourselves in human interaction and those are some times kind of particular crisis, rest of the time we do not observe our selves.
Since, we do not observe one self all the time, the possibility of chancing upon love is impossible. To know love, we must know what is not love. To know what is not love, self observation is important.
Just solving any one psychological problem( fear, ego, desire etc) leads/enables to solving all psychological problems. Again this can happen only when observing one self to unravel one self.
The space inside is not there, daily. There will be some thoughts happening inside most of the time.
Yes, sir, honesty is an important aspect to see things together carefully.
I observed, there is always some sort of image related to the opposite person in relation. It is nice to hear that having a relationship without images but I haven’t encountered this type of relationship yet. (practically)
I see that love has some kind of relationship with silence deep inside the psychological structure.
Dan, that is what we are paying some of our attention to investigate up on.
Just to be clear, I am not talking about indulging in sorrow that is quite a different thing all together. We are looking at and becoming aware of this whole structure of sorrow and how this ‘I’ has been put together to escape from facing this deep sorrow. Is my mind serious enough, quiet enough to begin to look at this whole structure of the ‘self’ and is this isolation and separation that we all feel the result of not being aware of this underlying sorrow? Is it possible to become aware of this energy of sorrow so that it can begin to transform itself? I feel that this is a very pertinent question, a question that demands our full attention.
What do we mean by sorrow? Is this the same as the word suffering? I have habits, memories, beliefs, traditions, and these I am aware of as thought. Good and bad, I am always experiencing something on the mind. I have regret, sadness, wishes, hopes, and all this is leading me to think about a past and a future. All this thought is creating an unresolved pain in the present. Aren’t the thoughts a sorrow, a suffering? Attending to the thoughts on the mind is not a suffering.
Is not ‘suffering’ personal ? Is the sorrow that K was talking about ‘personal’ ?
Why seeking pleasure is related to Sorrow? What changes inside, if a person goes through deep sorrow? Is sorrow, important in a person’s life? How sorrow is related to love?, in the present thread.
Is that why the self has come about, to escape sorrow? Or did Thought create the duality of a ‘me’ apart from ‘my’ thinking in order to give itself continuity, a kind of permanence? Thought without that illusion dies or dissolves each moment. Why search for a “deep sorrow”?
Is not the ‘search’ itself part of sorrow?
The personal is the suffering. My sorrow is this limited perception of me.