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Going around in circles

“We’re just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl
Year after year
Running over the same old ground
What have we found?
The same old fears
Wish you were here”

Pink Floyd, Wish you were here.

Browsing this forum, I’m continuously finding discussions about how to interpret some K.’s statements. And these discussions never lead anywhere. It’s like going around in circles, never really advancing but always staying where we are. I wonder why we are like that. We live near a river and yet go and look for water somewhere else. Do we really want to understand ourselves and life? Why not look directly to it? Why should another person tell me who I am and how my brain works? Am I so blind that I can’t see it with my own eyes? Or is it that I actually don’t love myself and life and so I’m not really interested in looking there?

I had a short exchange of ideas with someone here privately about awareness, with the aim to discover why it’s so difficult to be aware our ourselves. But is it really so difficult? Or rather it’s only a matter of not being sufficiently interested?

The people who were discussing how to interpret K.’s words were not beginners, on the contrary they were supposedly good connoisseurs of K.’s teachings and they even showed it proudly.
Sincerely I doubt they are. You can read or listen K. through the filter of your own opinions and convictions and so miss – consciously or unconsciously – all those points which do not fit with your ideas. I have seen doing this trick to many cultured and deeply religious people in some of K.s videos. One of these points, perhaps the most neglected one is: “Be a light to yourself”.
Do we need to interpret these words? I’m sure a lot of different interpretations will come out…
Again, going around in circles… are you not fed up of that?

Essentially K. is just a pointer to the actuality of life and ourselves. And as they say in Zen, the finger (which points to the moon) is not the moon. Why wasting our time and energy, arguing each other about the finger and not looking to the actual moon?
Life is always here with us, and so is myself. If we are not interested in the actuality of ourselves and life then we should better forget K. and everything he said. There are so many beautiful and satisfying things to do in life. That is exactly what I do when I realize that I’m going around in circles.

We spend too much effort trying to judge and compare the “level” of others compared to our own achievements.
This is just the movement of the self jockeying for position and self love.
Knock the gurus off their pedestal okay - but also give some honest attention to the guru in our own head.

Well said! And I feel, regardless if it’s my opinion, a fact that must be seen in order to actually live a life, free from any conditioning. As a simple example, do we yell at the violin for the way it works? Maybe, but only out of frustration. The violin is as it is. One can either work with the violin’s nature, or fight against it. One might never “master” the violin, but that’s not really the point, is it?

I’ve also been looking into awareness, and had a real, physical, “flash of insight” about it today. When we try to figure out what awareness is, we are forming an idea about awareness. Yet, anything such an idea points towards, has to be from memory. And as such, we are dealing with ideas about awareness, not the actual thing.

Does any idea point to something real? I’ve thought about some examples, and at the end of it, it seems like ideas never meet what is actually happening. Also, to give something a name, a title, a description… is the idea about it.

To stop “going around in circles,” one has to see wanting/desire, in this manner. When we want to “deal with wanting,” that in itself is wanting. Wanting is the “finger”, and the idea about “the moon”.

Exactly! Well said. That is why I said “When we think we are aware we are not”. Awareness is like death, as K. said once: “you cannot discuss with death”, we can also say : you cannot discuss with (and of) awareness.

"To stop “going around in circles,” one has to see wanting/desire, in this manner. When we want to “deal with wanting,” that in itself is wanting. Wanting is the “finger”, and the idea about “the moon”.

This is a precious completion of my speech. Yes, wanting, wishing and then feeling frustrated at not reaching anything. I had realized intuitively this point and understood that it was useless to cling to K.'s words as if some kind of “illumination” could come from them. And also I accepted my imperfect understanding of myself and life. In wanting to attain the “perfect” comprehension, not only I was going around in circles but I was negletting real life, the only reality I can possibily live. That’s reminded me a statement from an old Indian guru I’ve read long ago. “The only thing we can possess is that portion of ground our feet cover when we walk.”