Facts - ideas - words

Kinfonet Discussion
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Do any of these questions have any value ? If not, ignore or, admin., feel free to delete.

  • A fact is prior to an idea/thought.
  • An idea/thought surfaces for a moment in the mind, then it vanishes.
  • Where does the fact live in ? In the mind, mixed with thought ? (No !!!)
  • A fact of a tree is prior to the idea of a tree.
  • The idea of the tree is in my mind, where does the fact of the tree live in ?
  • I am a human being, I am prior to the idea of my self.
  • My idea of myself lives in my mind, where do I live as a fact ?
  • What are words ?
  • Ideas use words.
  • Words respond to facts.
  • Where do words live in ?
1 Like
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A fact is an idea that we can all (ish) agree on?

Words are representations of ideas.

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That was simple !! :smile:

  • the end of my struggle
    Thanks !
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Excellent news! My work here is done.
:disguised_face: :champagne: :rocket:

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Words represent facts, too. If they could not, we couldn’t use them to communicate. As a map can represent the territory, words can describe what actually happened, how things work, etc.

Words and ideas are stand-ins for facts when they’re not used for fiction, fantasy, faulty ideas, and falsehoods.

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What I am trying to see is what happens to the words, in deep attention; (I won’t use the word “complete attention” anymore, cause it is part of K’s language…and I doubt I will ever know what he truly meant…)
In deep attention, words change; words’ link to the past is cut, by attention; in attention words are either silent, or produce silence;
K’s words probably (?) come from silence, but do I hear the silence? or do I hear the noise of my past? cause if attention is missing, words call my past, which is isolating…

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How in the world is this phenomenon happening in my life ?: the thought of facing my own images about my self, appears to be so frightening !
My own “me” has created images of it self, and than it can’t look at it ?
So, the “I” creates the image, and then the “I” runs away from it.
The “I” can’t possibly see it self.

8

Your image of yourself facing images is apparently a scary one.

This might be the age old trap (or sickness) that zen folk have called “putting a head on top of a head” - which I take to mean the self reacting to itself eg. getting angry about being sad, or feeling guilty about being silly etc

I think we get trapped there when the teachings become our new belief - our realities start to change, but we still mistake them for actual realities.

9

Oh!! this is interesting !!!
So, because I have never faced an image of my self, I imagine (again!!) that this encounter between the "me and the “image”, is “scary”; and of course, calling it “scary” is an image and it perpetuates the distance, or blocks the encounter…
So, I act as I have seen the issue, but then the “I” leads again and says: it is scary, don’t look !!!
It makes me laugh !!

PS: Who said "putting a head on top of a head”? it sounds good and funny !!!

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"putting a head on top of a head” - I know what comments will follow: Crina, you are creating another image…but it is all I can do it seems…

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You fools!
What are you running
After so intently?
Why are you trying
To put a head on top of your head?
Your head is already
Exactly where it needs to be.
Lin-chi

1 Like
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Learning the art of observation is the only way to stop this avalanche of image formation.

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Well, Crina, now I have 2 images. lol

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Sorry :smile: ….2 more images in the infinite sea of images - ( oh my! … now a sea appears !!) …

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Bob? I think I found 2 words which do not create images !!! These are: “yes” and “no” !! What do you say ??:woman_shrugging::joy:

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Well ‘yes’ has created several more images :wink: :smiley: :thinking: and ‘no’ just one more . :frowning_face:

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“No” > less images > “K’s Via negativa”