From where I should start to change myself? How to become holy?
Does “to be holy” mean : being one with the whole?
I don’t know.
“When you observe, when you become extraordinarily aware of this activity of the self, then the mind becomes extraordinarily quiet, sane, healthy, holy.” – J. Krishnamurti
So we don’t know what it is that we want - only that we want it ?
Is it because we want to feel good? to be happy? and we believe that this mysterious thing will give us what we want?
Moving towards the good and avoiding the evil, isn’t this the movement of self/suffering?
The very movement you said you wanted to change?
Absolute righteous behaviour, be good, don’t hurt, never get angry, never think about yourself.( Jiddu Krishnamurti)
Are you saying this is what you want? Are you saying you want it because K says we must have it?
Wanting something, even on the advice of the highest authority, may not be enough. Do we always get what we want?
I think K says that the doorway to freedom from the known, is to see clearly what this process : of being me, is all about.
I just want to have healthy mind.
Sounds like a good plan.
Right now, can you see how is your mind?
The dictionary meaning of HOLY is “considered to be pure or good because of being related to what a religion”. This has expectations, desire to become righteous or connections to subscription of god.
Any effort consciously or unconsciously leads movement of thought in time. I am this I want to be that. There is an effort.
The simple( difficult in action) is to be aware of ones daily life( every micro second) from one’s wake up to sleep and any carry forward of day to sleep as dreams. Watch the daily life and negate effortlessly what is not holy or righteous or sacred. By negation one reaches which is sacred. Understand what is not LOVE to be in LOVE always.
The times or moments one is aware, attentive, listening without bias or past memories, living in present, all those movements and every moment is holy or sacres. All the rest of the moments are by fact are never can be sacred or holy.
I see this as the message that K attempted to get across but why should the brain go along with an activity (awareness every micro second) when just the opposite is the way it has functioned all one’s life. Can the neurological patterns formed over years just ‘dissolve’ as you make it sound, effortlessly? Why?
I think that is the question Macdoug asked and we should answer it.
And the answer can’t be put in words only in being
Well we can try. What you say sounds very ‘mystical’. K says “be aware of every thought” and there is the intellectual understanding that this is what is called for but how does this translate into action? Does it happen gradually? Can it happen gradually or only all at once as it seemed with his ‘process’. Some of us have spent many years looking into this and this question naturally arises. His message is powerful for me but why should the brain let go of its security even if it is false? Neurologically is it even possible in an old brain?
Does it matter how or when you become aware of every thought?
Isn’t the question, Why am I not aware of every thought when thought is operating constantly and involuntarily as psychological thought when not operating deliberately as practical thought?
Why is the part of the brain that maintains the illusion of self the default mode of consciousness?
Can it go beyond that conditioning and free itself? I think that it can but only if it becomes aware of what it has allowed to happen.
There is only one place: oneself
Why do I want to be holy when I don’t even know where to start to be holy?
From the very moment one says “I just want to have a healthy mind” it is obvious that one has somehow seen his/her unhealthy mind…
Indeed, it is a powerful and inspiring message. But how detailed accurate is it!? Something that David Bohm has also already pointed out. But let us leave that for a moment and look at it freshly.
Take the statement old brain and new brain. Do we think it refers to a brain transplant and if not what is meant by that? May we, can we make a comparison with the workings of a computer?
Do we call it a new computer if it is put to work with completely new software? I am not talking here about an update but completely new operation of it.
And even then as long as that new software arises through lust for monetary gain or works at the dependency of the computer, there the seed leading to the root of the problem is already there.
In other words, a different impulse a different wind in our mind is needed.
And that is why the wind that K. has sown could reap into a storm and that is for each of us to do.
Wim, the ‘old brain’ I was referring to was my own aging one. Whether physically it has the possibility to move away from the habitual channels , the ‘default mode’ and empty itself of the ‘past’?
We all have an aging brain from birth on that’s the consequence of being in this physical world. But using this human aging tool in a healthy fresh way isn’t that the question?
Some people showed us that in spite of the aging factor it’s possible. Look at what Ghandi, Mandela and Krishnamurti did.
So it’s not impossible and this has nothing to do with comparing them but what an aged brain still is capabel of.
In other words, the brain must be free of its conditioning to see what it has been doing before it can know what freedom is.