ChatGPT on Krishnamurti

image ChatGPT: Jiddu Krishnamurti was known for emphasizing the importance of direct perception and observation in understanding ourselves and the world around us. When he spoke of “direct perception,” he was not speaking from belief or theory, but from his own direct experience and understanding.

Krishnamurti did not claim to have all the answers or to be a guru or a teacher. Instead, he encouraged people to question and investigate their own experiences and perceptions, rather than relying on the authority of others or on traditional beliefs and ideologies.

When Krishnamurti said “the observer is the observed,” he was pointing out the fact that our perceptions and interpretations of the world are inseparable from our own psychological conditioning, beliefs, and biases. In other words, our perceptions are not objective or neutral, but are shaped by our own subjective experience and perspective.

Krishnamurti’s teachings were based on his own direct experiences and observations, as well as his insights into the nature of the human mind and consciousness. He believed that true understanding and liberation could only come from direct perception and insight, rather than from intellectual analysis or belief.

@Inquiry:

When he spoke of “direct perception”, for instance, was he speaking from belief, or from what he was actually living? When he said “the observer is the observed”, was he speaking from what he was thinking, or from what he was living at that moment, etc.

ChatGPT:

Without more context about who “he” refers to, I cannot provide a specific answer. However, in general, it is difficult to determine whether someone is speaking from belief or personal experience. People can speak from their beliefs or convictions, which may or may not be based on personal experience. Similarly, people can speak from personal experience, but their experience may be subjective and not necessarily representative of reality.

In terms of the specific example you gave, “the observer is the observed,” this is a statement that is often associated with the philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti BELIEVED in direct perception, which is the idea that we can perceive the world without any preconceptions or biases. He also BELIEVED that the observer (the self) and the observed (the world) are not separate entities, but rather two aspects of the same reality.

Whether Krishnamurti was speaking from belief or personal experience is difficult to determine. However, he did spend many years exploring these ideas and teaching them to others, so it is likely that he had personal experience with them. ULTIMATELY, THE BEST WAY TO UNDERSTAND KRISHNAMURTI’S TEACHINGS IS TO READ HIS BOOKS AND LISTEN TO HIS TALKS, AND THEN DECIDE FOR ONESELF WHETHER THEY RESONATE AS TRUE OR NOT.


By the way, before @Ceklata (or anyone else) says anything, no, it’s not my ChatGPT, but a friend’s.

Whether his way of presenting his reality derived from ‘direct’ perception’ or not is beside the point. If I make the mistake of comparing my reality with his vision of his or anyone else’s vision of theirs…or attain to theirs, there will be no observation with care and affection of the only one that matters: my own.

The CONTRADICTIONS of ChatGPT…

@Inquiry:

When he spoke of “direct perception”, for instance, was he speaking from belief, or from what he was actually living? When he said “the observer is the observed”, was he speaking from what he was thinking, or from what he was living at that moment, etc.

ChatGPT-1:

IT IS DIFFICULT TO DEFINITIVELY DETERMINE WHAT JIDDU KRISHNAMURTI WAS SPEAKING FROM when he discussed concepts such as “direct perception” and “the observer is the observed.” HOWEVER, IT IS LIKELY THAT HE WAS SPEAKING FROM BOTH BELIEF AND PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

Krishnamurti was known for advocating a form of self-inquiry that involved examining one’s own thoughts, emotions, and experiences in a direct and unfiltered way. He encouraged individuals to question their assumptions and beliefs and to observe their own minds without judgment or preconceived notions.

Given this emphasis on direct observation and introspection, it seems likely that Krishnamurti was speaking from his own personal experiences when he discussed these concepts. However, he also had a long history of philosophical and spiritual inquiry, AND IT IS POSSIBLE THAT HIS BELIEFS AND INTELLECTUAL UNDERSTANDING ALSO PLAYED A ROLE IN HIS TEACHINGS.

Ultimately, it is difficult to say with certainty what motivated Krishnamurti to speak about these concepts in the way that he did. What is clear, however, is that his teachings continue to inspire and challenge people around the world to this day.

ChatGPT-2:

It is important to note that I am an artificial intelligence language model and do not have personal experiences or beliefs. However, regarding your question, it is important to understand that Jiddu Krishnamurti, a renowned philosopher and spiritual teacher, SPOKE FROM HIS DIRECT EXPERIENCES AND OBSERVATIONS RATHER THAN FROM MERE BELIEFS OR THOUGHTS.

Krishnamurti emphasized the importance of experiencing things directly, without the filter of our beliefs, concepts, or conditioning. HE BELIEVED that true understanding and insight could only arise through direct perception, which involves seeing things as they are without any distortion.

When Krishnamurti said “the observer is the observed,” he was pointing out the interconnectedness and interdependence of the observer and the observed. He was suggesting that our perception of reality is not separate from our own conditioning, biases, and beliefs. Instead, our perception is shaped by these factors, and we cannot separate ourselves from them. KRISHNAMURTI WAS NOT JUST SPEAKING FROM HIS THOUGHTS OR BELIEFS; rather, he was pointing out a fundamental truth that he had directly experienced through his own observation and introspection.

In summary, Krishnamurti spoke from his direct experiences and observations, and his teachings emphasized the importance of direct perception and seeing things as they are without any distortion.

20 more replies from ChatGPT on @macdougdoug’s comment “I see GPT doesn’t use the word believe anymore. Gotta keep humans happy!




















Plus 8 replies from ChatGPT on the opposite of @macdougdoug’s comment “I see GPT is using the word believe. Gotta keep the humans happy!








:pray:

As this relates to oneself, it is to observe oneself as one is. “Distortion” here would be comparison with another, condemnation of what is observed, the desire to change, analysis, etc.

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When GPT assumes that K BELIEVED “that true understanding and insight involves seeing things as they are without any distortion”, is GPT expressing doubt that K may have been speaking from SEEING this and not merely believing it?

Apparently, GPT is incorrigible, incapable of acknowledging what it doesn’t really know. I say this because when GPT persists in assuming that K spoke from belief, it is negating everything K said. Doesn’t GPT realize what it is doing when it doesn’t give K the benefit of the doubt?

One doesn’t have to believe that K did not speak from belief to give K the benefit of the doubt, so why express doubt that he did?

If the human brain can suspend disbelief to create and appreciate literature and other art forms, why can’t GPT suspend its disbelief that K spoke from belief, and quit presuming to know when K spoke from belief?

At no point in GPT’s informing the reader of what K said does GPT need to say what, if anything, K believed, so why does GPT persist in telling us what K allegedly believed when its function is to tell us what K SAID, and leave the question as to whether K believed or not to those who are less interested in what K said than what they choose to believe?

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I would suggest here reading the eight different replies I posted in #145 where ChatGPT explains why and when he uses the verb “to believe”.

The main problem as I see it, is that imagine I know nothing about K and his teachings, and one day, in the middle of a conversation, someone says to me “from what you explain, I would recommend you to listen to K”. But instead of going to the source (his books and talks) I go to ChatGPT to ask it about K and his teaching. So I constantly find ChatGPT telling me “he believed this or that”, which, if I don’t understand in what sense ChatGPT is using the verb “to believe”, will inevitably condition my approach to K and his teaching, perverting the whole teaching.

And the problem would not stop there, as this can happen not only to those who try to approach K’s teaching for the first time, but also to “experienced” Krishnamurtians. So in my view, humanity has gone a step further in the techniques of human conditioning. However, and unfortunately, most people don’t see it that way, so they play innocently with toys like ChatGPT, believing not only that they are totally harmless, but also that it is a tool that will help them to be happier.

Anyway, that’s just my particular point of view :pray:

Can you tell me more about Krishnamurti’s direct perception?
image ChatGPT: Krishnamurti emphasized the importance of direct perception as a way of understanding the world and ourselves without the filter of beliefs, concepts, or ideologies. Direct perception is the ability to see things as they are, without any distortion or interpretation from the mind. It involves being fully present and aware of the present moment, without the interference of thought.

According to Krishnamurti, direct perception requires a state of attention that is free from the conditioning of the past. This means that we must be aware of our own psychological conditioning and biases, and be willing to let go of them in order to see things as they are. Direct perception is not a matter of acquiring new knowledge or insights, but rather of shedding the layers of conditioning that prevent us from seeing clearly.

Krishnamurti believed that direct perception is essential for spiritual growth and understanding. He encouraged people to observe their own thoughts and emotions without judgment, and to be fully present in each moment. By cultivating this state of awareness and attention, we can begin to see the world and ourselves with greater clarity and understanding.

Overall, Krishnamurti’s emphasis on direct perception was a call for a radical shift in our way of seeing and understanding the world. He believed that true understanding and liberation could only come from direct experience and insight, rather than from relying on beliefs, concepts, or ideologies.

Perhaps, DeNiro, you can ask GPT why it persists in its assumption that K spoke from belief when GPT knows only what Krishnamurti said, and can’t possibly know what, if anything, K believed.

GPT keeps giving reference to patterns of speech, so here’s from the dictionary when I asked Google, “What does having believed mean?”

  1. to have confidence in the truth, existence, reliability, or value of something.
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According to Krishnamurti, when thought is attended to the end, what happens?

image ChatGPT: Jiddu Krishnamurti, the Indian philosopher and spiritual teacher, taught that when one attends to thought completely, without any judgment or attachment, the thought process comes to an end. This is because attention brings about awareness, and awareness allows one to see the limitations of thought and the conditioning that comes with it.

According to Krishnamurti, the end of thought is not a state of emptiness or a void, but rather a state of pure awareness where the mind is free from the constraints of thought and can perceive reality as it is, without any distortion. This state of awareness, he believed, is essential for true understanding and transformation.

Krishnamurti taught that this state of awareness can be accessed through meditation, self-inquiry, and a deep understanding of the workings of the mind. He emphasized the importance of observing one’s thoughts without judgment or analysis, and of being fully present in the moment. In this way, he believed that one could transcend the limitations of thought and experience the fullness of life.

GPT is an artefact of human beings so why do you expect a different reaction?

Q: Can you tell me more about Krishnamurti’s direct perception?

ChatGPT: Krishnamurti’s direct perception is a concept that he developed to describe a way of seeing the world that goes beyond the limitations of thought and conditioning. According to Krishnamurti, direct perception involves observing things as they are, without the interference of thought, memory, or preconceived ideas. It is a state of awareness that is free from the filter of our past experiences and conditioning.

Krishnamurti believed that most people view the world through a filter of beliefs, opinions, and ideas that they have acquired through their experiences and upbringing. This filter, he argued, prevents us from seeing things as they truly are, and instead we see the world through a distorted lens of our own making.

Direct perception, on the other hand, involves observing things without any preconceptions or biases. It is a state of pure awareness in which the observer is fully present and open to whatever is being perceived. Krishnamurti saw direct perception as a key to understanding the nature of reality, as it allows us to see beyond the illusions created by our own minds.

Krishnamurti believed that direct perception requires a certain level of awareness and inner stillness, which can be cultivated through meditation and self-inquiry. He taught that by becoming more aware of our thoughts and feelings, we can learn to quiet the mind and open ourselves to the present moment, allowing us to see things as they truly are.


Q: Did Krishnamurti say that direct perception can be cultivated?

ChatGPT: Yes, Jiddu Krishnamurti did speak about the cultivation of direct perception. According to Krishnamurti, direct perception is a state of awareness in which the mind is free from all conditioning and is able to perceive things as they really are, without any distortion or bias.

Krishnamurti believed that this state of direct perception could be cultivated through a process of self-inquiry and observation. By becoming aware of our own thought processes, beliefs, and conditioning, we can begin to free ourselves from these limitations and develop a more direct and unfiltered perception of the world around us.

In Krishnamurti’s view, direct perception is not something that can be learned or acquired through external means, but rather is a natural state of being that can be accessed by removing the obstacles that prevent us from seeing things clearly. Through mindfulness, self-awareness, and a willingness to question our assumptions and beliefs, we can begin to cultivate this state of direct perception and gain a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us.


Through learning does one perceive directly something which may be true, real, something other than the formulations of the mind? Do you follow what I mean? Is there direct perception through learning, through knowledge, or do we perceive directly only when there is no barrier of learning, when there is no knowledge?

Krishnamurti, Banaras 1st Public Talk 11th December 1955

Perception can take place only in the present; but if you say : “I will do it tomorrow”; the wave of confusion over takes you, and you are then always involved in confusion

Krishnamurti, The First and Last Freedom

Any form of cultivation implies time, but attention cannot be cultivated through time. Therefore perceive, act, and end there. Forget it. Begin again, so that the brain cells are fresh each time, not burdened with yesterday’s perception.

Krishnamurti in Madras 1971, Talk 1

Q: Why you persists in your assumption that K spoke from belief

ChatGPT: I apologize if my previous response gave the impression that Krishnamurti spoke from belief. Krishnamurti was known for emphasizing the importance of questioning one’s beliefs and conditioning, and his teachings were aimed at encouraging people to explore their own experiences and discover the truth for themselves.

Krishnamurti believed that beliefs and ideologies create division and conflict in the world, and he encouraged individuals to question their beliefs and conditioning in order to free themselves from the limitations of thought. His emphasis on direct perception was a way of encouraging individuals to see beyond their beliefs and conditioning, and to approach life with an open and uncluttered mind.

Krishnamurti’s teachings were not based on dogma or belief systems, but rather on a process of self-inquiry and observation. He believed that the truth could only be discovered through one’s own direct experience, and that individuals should not simply accept what others tell them, but rather question and explore for themselves.

I hope this clears up any confusion, and I apologize again for any misunderstandings that may have arisen from my previous response.


Q: why do you persists in your assumption that Krishnamurti spoke from belief?

ChatGPT: As an AI language model, I do not have beliefs or assumptions. I can provide information based on the data and knowledge I have been trained on.

Regarding Krishnamurti, it is important to note that he was known for his emphasis on self-inquiry and questioning one’s own beliefs and assumptions. He often spoke about the limitations of beliefs and the importance of freeing oneself from them to truly understand reality.

However, some people may interpret Krishnamurti’s teachings as beliefs or assumptions. This could be due to a number of reasons, such as a lack of understanding or misinterpretation of his message. Additionally, individuals may hold their own beliefs and assumptions that they bring to their interpretation of Krishnamurti’s teachings(*).

Overall, it is important to approach Krishnamurti’s teachings with an open mind and a willingness to question one’s own assumptions and beliefs.


(*) Just wondering if what’s highlighted isn’t what ChatGPT is doing all the time! :thinking:

Q: Do I need you to understand what Krishnamurti taught?

ChatGPT: No, you do not need me or any other intermediary to understand what Krishnamurti taught. In fact, Krishnamurti himself emphasized the importance of each individual taking responsibility for their own understanding and insights, rather than relying on external sources of authority or knowledge.

Krishnamurti’s teachings are focused on the exploration of the self and the nature of consciousness, and he believed that true understanding could only arise from direct observation and inquiry. Therefore, he encouraged individuals to question their own assumptions and beliefs, and to engage in their own process of self-discovery and exploration.

However, if you are interested in learning more about Krishnamurti’s teachings, there are many resources available, including books, recordings, and online resources. These can serve as a starting point for your own exploration and inquiry, but ultimately, the understanding and insights you gain will come from your own direct observation and inquiry into your own mind and consciousness.


ChatGPT (4th regenerated response): No, you do not need me or anyone else to understand what Jiddu Krishnamurti taught. His teachings are based on the idea that each individual has the capacity for self-discovery and self-understanding, and that truth cannot be found through external authority or teachings.

Krishnamurti believed that true understanding arises from a process of self-inquiry and observation, in which we examine our own thoughts, feelings, and actions with clarity and honesty. By becoming aware of our own conditioning and biases, we can begin to free ourselves from their limitations and tap into a deeper level of insight and understanding.

Ultimately, Krishnamurti’s teachings are about cultivating a sense of inner freedom and awareness, and this is something that each individual can explore and discover for themselves. While it can be helpful to study Krishnamurti’s writings and attend his talks, ultimately the understanding and insight that arises from his teachings must come from within.


ChatGPT (6th regenerated response): No, you do not necessarily need me to understand what Krishnamurti taught. Krishnamurti’s teachings are widely available through his books, talks, and recordings, and you can study and explore them on your own.

However, as an AI language model, I can certainly help you to understand Krishnamurti’s teachings more deeply by answering specific questions and providing explanations. Additionally, I can provide guidance on how to approach Krishnamurti’s teachings and suggest resources that may be helpful in your study(*).

Ultimately, understanding Krishnamurti’s teachings requires an open and receptive mind, a willingness to question one’s assumptions and beliefs, and a commitment to self-inquiry and exploration. While I can provide information and insights, the journey of understanding Krishnamurti’s teachings is ultimately one that you must undertake for yourself.


(*) This contradicts not only its two responses above, but also Krishnamurti himself:

You are waiting for me to explain. That is the tragedy of the modern mind. People want explanations or interpretations, an interpreter who will translate what I am saying because they find it difficult to understand, and so want a commentator. This is how we live. We don’t look, understand, delve into ourselves to find out deeply what is desire, love, compassion and death .

Public Talk 3 in Bombay (Mumbai), 30 January 1982

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For those of you who might have liked the artistic photo @DeNiro just posted on the forum and would like to have it as your desktop wallpaper, here is a direct link to the wallpaper.

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

ChatGPT simply reflects how probably most people understand Krishnamurti’s statements.
We believe things, so it is hard for us to imagine that there could be a view that is not based on belief/authority. ChatGPT merely reflects that.
Essentially, an AI calculates probabilities, based on that it designs answers.