I believe K’s starting point for enquiry was that the world is in chaos and that human lives’ are in disorder. But is this so?

If the human species ends up self-destructing while the rest of Creation keeps going on for billions of years more or even for eternity, was it really chaos and was it really disorder that led to the demise of this weak species of living beings that existed for a blip of time on a small planet orbiting a small star that that is part of a relatively uninteresting galaxy sitting at the far edge of an infinite and ever expanding universe? Disorder with respect to what exactly? Asteroids bump into planets, and stars die and explode all the time. Is it because they are in disorder? In chaos? Or rather because chaos IS order?

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If K could instill a sense of responsibility for the world condition in his audiences as in “You are the world”, he has a basis for his teachings, which evolved over time. Remember, K was thrust into this occupation by the Theosophical Society. He was on a speaking circuit, like his predecessors, and was dependent on returning audiences.

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I understand. But I do believe he was absolutely right when he said “You are the world”.
It’s the chaos and disorder bit that I am beginning to question. Is our world really any more in chaos than the rest of the Universe?

A. A violent order is a disorder; and.
B. A great disorder is an order.
These Two things are one.

– Wallace Stevens

Order/Shakti and chaos/Shiva can be seen as yin and yang aspects of Mother Nature.

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“Chaos is merely order waiting to be deciphered.” Jose Saramago.

It may be that the human mind turns chaos into “order” by filtering, labeling and “understanding” it.

If life on Earth must be orderly to survive and evolve, any species in disorder can’t survive and continue its evolution.

Our species is in disorder because our brain doesn’t know and understand itself; isn’t directly aware of the confusion it sustains through incoherent thought. Whether this condition is a stage in our evolution or the cause of our extinction, we don’t know.

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Afaik these are not mutually exclusive! Are we evolving to our extinction?

English is not my first language, but I believe what he meant is we might be evolving to a mind that is not in disorder or be going extinct because of it (because of the disorder).

Aha. I understand. I was just pointing out that a species can evolve to its extinction, i.e. extinction, like death, is Nature at work. My view fwiw is less dire, I don’t think the alternatives are either we evolve to order or perish as a species. But I doubt any of us will ever find out!

Are “the alternatives” too simplistic? What do you think?

I believe in humans’ ability to adapt, fix/invent, and survive. These all require an ordered mind, but the order needed is more practical than psychological, more cleverness than intelligence. Are holocaustal events possible? Sure. Genocidal? Yep. But extinction of the species, I just don’t see it. We’re like frickin’ cockaroaches, nearly impossible to kill off wholesale. (Note that I’m going on intuition here, I have no evidence or scientific theories to back me up.) What do you think?

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I think that if we can’t come to order it’s best for planet earth that we cease to exist.

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Probably. Homo sapiens has not been a very gracious guest to Earth. There are exceptions, individuals, groups. But the system, the underlying patterns are pretty Earth-unkind.

I think that, when K says that World is in chaos. He meant about the people not the universe or stars.

Human lives are in disorder, I am sure most of us will agree. Every one has his own order and when things go beyond he or she is in chaos.

Earthquake may be a chaos for someone, but for the universe it’s just normal.

As for me, my world, me, is my family, friends neighbours…if they are safe I feel safe, …

If s.o. set his bounderies f.i. my family, my friends, my neighbours, etc… can there be safety at all?
The greater the boundaries, the more they are susceptible to attacks.
Look what happens to our nations: they feel safe but in order to get that feeling they have to defend their bounderies.
Is this not the same movement concerning my little world?
So, in fact, we are inviting the violence , the disorder, the chaos into our own lifes.

The only other alternative we have is go on as we are now, but although I see it as a viable alternative in the short to medium term, I don’t see it continuing to be an option in, say, 1000, 2000 years.

Yes, I know, and that’s exactly what I meant. He looked at man and saw disorder. But if we look at the universe close enough, one can see a kind of disorder too. That’s why I was asking: Is man really in disorder or is that disorder just part of the general cosmic chaos that ends up sorting itself out (even through extinction).

Why be pessimistic about whether “any of us will ever find out”? If I felt that way I wouldn’t bother participating here.

Is there a movement towards love, or isn’t there? In what form (humans, robots, gas, liquid, plasma etc) that movement takes is not the main issue.

Isn’t that so. If the boundaries are small and areas of concern are few then one shall have greater peace. Family, friends and immediate neighbours make my boundaries small…