Say you see, with real clarity, that all the lovely and thrilling knowledge-based thinking-driven realizations you’ve had over the years haven’t brought you to the top of the mountain. What do you do: keep searching for the Big Kahuna realization that will magically transport you there? (That seems to be what we tend to do, right? How do we know if it’s a sane good path or a self-defeating one? After all it took Edison many thousands of failures to find a good filament! And there are reasonably credible people who say they finally ‘figured it out.’)
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It isn’t about “knowing all this stuff” - it’s about awareness of what I am doing while doing it.
Is there a path “to the top of the mountain”?
Is moment to moment awareness of self a “mountain”, an achievement, or is it just being serious?
Now you bring in “awareness” into the topic.
And I guess this has been a thread in the past.
I often put myself the question - might be a wrong one - was I aware or did I think that I was aware? I put this question in the past tense, because when thinking about awareness it seems always related to the past.
And another one: has awareness whatsoever the do with the past? So that one speaks about it it doesn’t exist anymore. Maybe there has been awareness, maybe i was just thinking that there has been. Does it matter at all?
What do you think?
Does it matter that everything that happens, happens in the eternal now?
Awareness (like everything else) is now or never.
I want to know whether you are serious about this.
If not, no issue.
Or… did I completely misunderstood you?
Because you bring in awareness and the eternal now and to me they are just words.
I cannot even imagine what you mean by it.
But … I am still listening.
Actuality is unimaginable, so when you live in the world of your imagination, your reality, you depend on imagination - not awareness.
I am so anxious to use words, thoughts, ideas which i do not understand fully.
It is like just repeating them and what is the value, the depth in merely repeating.
Don’t get me wrong, i do not know whether you are repeating . It might be so, might it be worht its while to find this out together.
Talk about presumptuous! My response was to Dev’s #106 post. He said he was tired. I visit Kinfonet daily, post occasionally, and have been here since its inception. My concern was for Dev.
When you expressed your concern by saying, “Thank you, Dev, for all you have done. it may be time for something new for you”, I was surprised because what Dev said didn’t indicate to me that he was tired of moderating and might want to quit or do something else.
In a previous post #91, Dev wrote, “I don’t care if only a few persons remain here, or if I need to close it all down, as I did with the Kinfonet dialog groups, though that would be a shame.” But my response was mainly to #106.
Thanks for this reminder that Dev did mention closing “it all down” as he did with the previous Kinfonet dialog groups. I had participated in those groups and moved on to the KFA group.
The fact that he reinstated the kinfonet discussion group indicated to me that he was determined to keep moderating a group like this.
Ah, thank you for clarifying this. I didn’t understand Dev to be talking about closing the website, because he said:
My sense was that he was just saying that he has a certain clear intention for the website, and even if only one or two people continue to participate, this is secondary to maintaining his vision of what he wants Kinfonet to be.
It is hard on a message forum like this to be clear in our words and meanings so that they communicate our intentions transparently; and it is easy to read into people’s posts meanings and intentions that they do not have.
So I’m sorry that in this case I clearly read into your comments a negative intention you didn’t have at all. Obviously it was me who was being presumptuous, as you said. Apologies. 
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That is correct.
And as an aside, I’d be happy to pass on or share the mantle of moderation to anyone sharing that vision of non-compromise - as difficult as it is to articulate what is meant by that.
I meant the recent Zoom dialogs that were under the Kinfonet banner. I came to feel that those meetings had become overrun by several powerful factors that, at the risk of sounding elitist, are diametrically opposed to the radical and revolutionary aspect that, again to me, lies at the heart of K’s teaching - namely, that truth is a pathless land that cannot be held.
Factors such as misinterpreting “knowing oneself” or “relationship” to mean a form of personal or group therapy, mindlessly repeating K concepts as if they were a living reality, authority figures who gave the impression they had gone beyond thinking, and so on.
This is what gets lost in the ‘organization’. It gets diluted when the message gets ‘ carried on’ after the ‘messenger’ dies…some have said that dilution is ‘lawful’. It probably is. So our work; we have to be aware of that. Bohm has been helpful I think with looking at ourself , looking at ‘thought’ as part of a ‘system’ and with his re-presenting K’s question: “can thought be aware of itself”?.Of its movement?
Given its influence, why shouldn’t it be?
I would rephrase that, Dan, to “dilution is awful”. 
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I think that it’s easy to underestimate the value of this site. The fact that so many people have come here over the years and read a huge variety of quotes from K seems in itself very important. In the thousands of dialogues that have taken place here, at least some of them have surely led to a deepening of understanding of K’s teachings, at least for some people. All of this must surely have impacted positively, at least to some extent, on the lives of many people. It would be a great shame if this site were to close.
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Thank you for the concern, DeNiro. I am fine.
Most likely just had a senior moment.
Or a glimpse of what lurks beneath.
All good now. Back on the saddle.
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