If there is a mutual interest in truth and facts, then we will not hold onto separate truths - or refuse to part with them if they turn out to be falsehoods.
I have no idea what you are talking about Joost. I don’t recall saying anything of the kind, nor making any promises. And who is hijacking the thread? I don’t follow.
The thread is on the topic of seriousness. We then talked about what it means to be serious in the context of our relationships on Kinfonet. We have been discussing this openly between everyone.
And now we are asking what it means to share a mutual interest in truth and facts - regardless of personal like and dislike - in the context of an open interest in Krishnamurti’s teachings, and the fact that we are the world.
If you have only dropped by every once in a while, you may have missed all this.
Is truth yours or mine? Isn’t truth what actually is from moment to moment, and therefore impossible to hold? Isn’t the question whether the unfolding of events can be followed - flowed with - rather than seized and held? If it is possible, harmony is flowing, following, flowering, and not seizing and holding.
1 Like
Thank you James for clearing this out.
It wasn’t you that made that statement, but Rick regarding his dispute with Dev.
You can see it in the thread if you take the trouble to go back.
However my remarks are still the same but now I address them to rick.
So, why Rick, do you not stick to your promise?
You see , gentleman, i seem to disfunction when friction arises.
Yes, that is the question. And with that question, it seems to me that the original question of what is seriousness has evolved. It is no longer a question of who is or is not serious about the teachings, or about the suffering in the world or any such other concrete je ne sais quoi. At this juncture it is imperative that we slow down drastically. If we supply the answer to that question as to whether the unfolding of events can be revealed, whether it be through “awareness” or silence or the like, we will have moved away from the question. Whereas, if we are honest enough to admit we actually don’t know how to proceed and are somehow able to remain in that state of unknowing, un-gratifying as it is to do that, then that maybe the ground from which the possibility of something entirely different - which may well be uncultivated awareness - could spring. I don’t know and I don’t wish to know. Knowledge is the death-knell of curiosity, of innocence. of humility.I think there is something there in that space, in that time gap, but can’t quite get at it. Can’t find a way to properly articulate it. But it seems to me it has something to do with seriousness, real seriousness not seriousness about something or the other.
1 Like
So, what you are suggesting is : let it go … Do not stick to an idea, however powerful it might be.
I am in for this and see what happens.
I said I’d be happy to hash it out privately, I didn’t make any promises. For 2+ people to take things into the realm of the private, they have to both agree to it. I opened the door for private meeting, but there was no-one who showed any interest in it. For that reason, I gave up.
Guess we’ll have to play it by ear, we might disagree about whether X is a truth or falsehood. But I agree, let us let truth be our guide.
That may be your (view of) truth, but it is not necessarily The Truth.
Inquiry was asking, wasn’t he? So, let us look at the question: isn’t truth sthg to hold on, to adhere to?
We don’t know what truth is but that doesn’ t impede us to ask , no?
I dare ask : what is the state of mind that asks these questions? Let’s go into it, together as our mutual friend often used to say. It might be impossible to do this given the circumstances (here on Kinfonet, a limited platform, i suppose) but at least we should give it a try.
The mind that is contemplating the nature of truth has stepped out of the stream, is not inhabiting the present moment, is not surfing the crest of the wave. ?
I am sorry, but I do not quite get it.
“Stepped out of the stream”, what does that mean?
Stepped out of the stream to ride the wave
When I say ‘stepped out of the stream’ I mean exiting the flow (of being present) to engage in questioning and thinking. A mind fully in the stream-flow has no time to sit back and ponder.
Right, the stream can get rough, move fast, and one must be completely attentive or find oneself on the rocks having second thoughts about floating or flailing.
You need time to think, right? Thinking (questioning) is not a timeless process. Stepping out of the stream-now is stepping into time.
Yes, and our problem is that we don’t/can’t/won’t step out because we can’t abandon our precious truths that we hold for the dear life of our illusory selves.
I wonder whether it is helpfull in an inquiry to know all this stuff about myself. After all it remains knowledge, no?
I think it doesn’t help at all and ,more over ,it might stand in the way.
So, acknowledging all this, what shall I do?