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Why Don't We Change After All These Years?

It is my judgement that keeps me away from the meditative state.

PS- When there is awareness there are no thoughts to be found

Than stay with your judgement and forget the meditative state.

How do I stay with my judgement?

PS - Sorry - maybe you thought I was complaining about judgement and meditation - I was just trying to describe the issue at hand.

No need to be sorry, you pointed out important things and I think this discussion may help each other to go deeper into this matter. Neither of us has the complete view, one may see one thing and the other a different one equally important. Our replies are complementary I think.

Judgement is just an activity of the mind, let it happen, observe it when it comes without reacting: I must not judge". This is choiceless awareness, isn’t it?

“if I am observing my thoughts - this is just extra confusion on top of confusion.”

Of course there is confusion. But if you don’t react - and that means the ego, you, is not operating, you can stay with that too.

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Judging is bad :rofl:

If judging is bad, calling it “bad” is judging, which is bad.

Yes - it was a poor attempt at humor.

Only thought can say there are no thoughts to be found

Yes, Krishnamurti talked about how he was vacant as a child and conditioning just washed over him. So can we ever be free of our conditioning or is this someting that is innate and cannot be changed?

I had thought the same the first time I read his biography. And it’s also a thing which has been debated a lot in the K.'s circles and by K. himseld. He used to say: “K. might be a biological freak”. So must we conclude there is no hope for us?

From what I gathered in his talks he opened a door for us, something probably we could not do by ourselves. The door is still open, maybe only for a short while…

Yes - we are constantly trying to make sense of stuff

True

Not true (sorry to have to say this again). We do see that there must be a change in ourselves, but it is not “the basic sensation that we are OK” that prevents us from changing, but:

(1) the fear and insecurity that most of us have to venture on a path that we know nothing about except what others have said about it, and of which the only thing they say is “if you want to know it you must walk it yourself” (yes, most of us need to have some security that the “effort” will be worth it before we start walking).

(2) the fear of being left alone walking a path that most do not walk;

(3) the fear of dying psychologically, of ceasing to “be”, on that path (yes, many ask “OK, you say that I must die psychologically, that I must cease to be, and then what?” before giving a single step).

Therefore, the only thing that prevents us from changing is fear. And not wanting to acknowledge that fear in ourselves, is when we say to justify ourselves “I’m fine as I am, after all, it is true that I suffer, but I also have many moments of happiness. So I’m not going to venture down a path that nobody assures me that in the end things will be better there … anyway, I will continue talking to/with others about the need for change”.

Yes, there is hope … the only thing that prevents this hope from becoming a fact is precisely our fear of becoming “a biological freak”. You already know these kind of questions: “What will happen to me if I start walking that path?” “What if I am left alone?” “Who is going to help me when things go wrong?” and so on up to “what will happen to my relationships if I become a biological freak?”. You see, fear again.

Sorry but this response doesn’t answer the question of the original post. To really answer that question you should explain why “we want to hang onto the images we have of ourselves” and so on.

Yes

Ignorance is never innate, it can be eradicated if we allow wisdom to dispel it without fear getting in the way.

It is said that Lama Tsongkhapa (a Tibetan monk) was once giving teachings about the emptiness of all phenomena, and that in the midst of these teachings he saw a monk cling tightly to his habits. He had realized emptiness but the fear of disappearing was still there, so he came back.

Allow? Who will allow? And who will not let fear get in the way?

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Remember that interval of quiet between two thoughts? From that place, fear as thought can be seen to arise. It’s an interference. When it’s seen as that it can dissipate. From that place of quiet, all thinking is an interference. It’s part of understanding the process of thinking and where it has its place and where it doesn’t?

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Wouldn’t the door remain open for as long as there are humans to walk through it? Or are you implying that at some point we’ll be too inhuman to walk through that open door? The Christians believe that time is short and if you tarry, the door will close.

He pointed at the interval between thoughts as being the ‘timeless’ space. In that, which we have to find ourselves, there is the possibility to be free. It is nameless but it is called ‘silence’, intelligence, wisdom, insight…Thought can “absorb “ it but it is free of thought. Thought can “terminate” it with its conclusions as it does relentlessly. But it can’t have anything to do with thought/time, it is creation itself?

From that place? Do I have to do anything to bring that ‘place’ about? My point is, that there’s no ‘who’ …no one but thought. If there’s an interval between thoughts and intelligence arises, there’s no one initiating that arising. It happens when and if it happens. ‘I’ can do nothing to make that interval happen, nor make the ‘seeing’ or understanding happen. ‘I’ who am thought.

You’re asking? Or is the question mark a mistake?