Hi Viswa
Yes I can seek to become humble but seeing through that desire to ‘become’…that or anything else is the ending of that desire. When thought becomes aware that its actions are self-enhancing, it can stop.
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The self-centered mind pretends to know what humility is, even though it has chosen to be the opposite of humility, the mind it should-be rather than what it simply is.
I think Peter put it this way that the self-image is like a prism through which each of us sees the world. A distorted image.It ‘runs the show’. Self knowledge is understanding how it does that. Shining a light on it.
This sounds like a theory. Have you ever, in your life, observed humility? Have you ever, in your life, observed action that was not self-centred? Just askin’.
How do you know what moves another to act? There are times when we are altruistic, self-sacrificing, etc., and you can call these occasional uncharacteristic acts humility, if you must, but they may be more calculated than you can imagine. The self-centered mind is not humble.
From our self-centered point of view, we can define humility, claim to know it when we see it, but we can only theorize and speculate because humility is what we are not. We may as well be talking about choicelessness, or timelessness, or seeing, or wholeness, or any of the K-words we know so well without really knowing what they refer to.
Your prism is your prison…
Yes Inquiry - this is how the reality is - I can also see this.
But are we here,
- to share the facts of humans/reality intellectually - ‘accept’ as it is - and move on living with it, (or)
- to dominate/preach others with knowledge of K’s teachings - and to show them they are ‘right/wrong’, (or)
- to inquire together regarding “We can ‘see’ this facts of conditioned life as ‘limited,past,sufferings’ but even after we see this - why are we still living in this conditioned life? - why there is no radical change in this ‘observation’?”
Humans have been exchanging their views for ever, and ever, and nothing fundamentally has changed. Quite the opposite. I continue to accumulate knowledge and technology. What we call humility is a deference to authority and tradition. Humility is not something to develop between people in conflict.
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I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here Viswa. Why do we come here in the first place? A very good question.
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Why not seriously look at the teachings as you read them, or listen to them, without the interpretative approach, and not use the ponderings as cannon fodder?
Hi Peter.
Why one has to come here - read/listen/look/inquire about K’s teachings?
Had you asked this question Peter? What drives us to come here?
So you are saying that you look seriously at the teachings but nobody else does, right? That sounds like you are some sort of expert on the teachings of K. Is that really what you’re saying?
Now that is a very good question. I would say we never really know, but our powers of observation can help a lot. If you listen and watch with attention, you probably have more chance of being aware of what moves yourself and others to act. So, given we can’t be sure what moves another to act, how can you be so sure that action is always driven by self-centredness? Of course, self-centred action is absolutely rampant in the world we live in and all of us act in a self-centred way a lot of the time. But surely there are times when our actions are not self-centred and this is important to recognise and learn from. It’s the same with seeing “what is”. All of us are conflicted and conditioned and see through a filter of past experience. That’s surely beyond doubt. But do we ever observe with a silent mind and see clearly? We’ve read K for years talking about the importance of observing with a silent mind. Is this simply not possible for us at all? How do you see this Inquiry?
I’m not so sure. Why are you? Being self-centered is a world apart from having no center, no authority.
do we ever observe with a silent mind and see clearly?
There are times when the self-centered mind is quieter and less distorted than at other times, and with psychedelics it may experience what seems to be freedom, but structurally, it is blinded by and bound to what-should-be.
Anything I say can be interpreted. So I am asking why not seriously look at this approach and not do it.
Why come here? Is this the serious question? Rather than this question, read and share the nature of the communication. Share in the sense it is not separate communication from the other, but something the mind is reading and does not think it is external, and see where this sits in the mind, completely, with no reaction. Then you are really here.
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Yes Sir.
We are here right now - I can see this - I don’t question this.
But please I beg to watch yourself before coming here - “what makes you come here? Why you want to be here?”
See - Lets assume at 6.00 pm - you are coming here. But before 6.00 pm - at around 5.50 pm - there should be some urge/want makes us come here - and so I ask to watch that urge when it arises - and see “Why you want to come here”
I don’t ask to share that in this dialogue - but it’s very important to see it - as it might help you know about the exact want/desire to join these dialogues.
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We are all here somewhere, and then we are in time, somewhere else. Motive is more than a shift in time and place. It will be something much deeper, more fundamental, and is really at the core of I, self, ego, and all that. What is the human motive? Isn’t this a question, where we see it is actually asking, what is this movement away from the straightforward actuality. It is not complicated. Then you see humility is this uncomplicated straightforwardness.