What can we learn from nature?

Kinfonet Discussion
21

So, the time to act is now.

Yet, even those who claim to know here-now,

are still unclear, on the reality of-now.

Said less cryptically:

We all must willingly quit believing that we can change another person’s perceived view. We must actually come together, on the facts that each one of us offers. For, we are actually all-together: the same movement doing something about the current crisis.

When we ignore nature, we ignore ourselves. When we (any relation) are in conflict, all of us (everything that exists), reflects that struggle.

Whether the Earth naturally goes through periods of mass extinction, We as a whole species, continue to resist who we naturally already are. Stop pretending that any one belief can automatically fix what has been set in motion. Know who is-existing. Know why we appear to be already in-motion.

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Dear Philip, hi

Yes, that is why freedom starts at the beginning, first by dropping one’s beliefs - by dropping one’s dependence on beliefs. Of course, one must first realize that one has beliefs, right?

Here, the crows have been nesting and there are areas where locals do a walk-around - giving them a wide berth, because the crows have a conditioned response to people walking under the trees where their nests are - they “dive-bomb” people walking underneath. First, they let out big warning shrieks, cawing, and then they dive down on unsuspecting walkers who are passing by underneath the trees where they are nesting. So you can easily see the extent to which one with an active conditioning will do anything and everything to protect their turf.

23

Good morning CharleyCannuck :slight_smile:

Well said! Yet there is always more to the “story”. We are already free, by the fact that we are alive. We notice freedom-beauty-peace, when we notice that we are able to watch our beliefs. First, we think that we are dependent, or attached to our conditioned way of seeing, then somehow, on further examination, we realize that we have always been thinking. No one has been forcing us to accept our conditioning. We accept that something must be done in order to “obtain freedom”.

What must the Earth obtain, in order to exist? What must the sun do, to avoid collapse? if we say that it is gravity, then we are really saying, that everything already exists according to it’s natural reality, not to any reality built out of thoughts or beliefs.

What a neat story about the crows, I never knew that! It definitely seems like the first thing we need to do, is be aware of our territorial tendencies, then realize that we are without any borders. Borders between nations, races, class, and even being aware.

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Hello Charley

I feel, do we know that the point of no return reached?. Based on the scientific facts we can see the problem of global warming. But, in this very instance, are we stop using refrigerators, air-conditioners, motor vehicles runs in petrol, etc…?

Are we stopping our contribution regarding this, now?. We can’t now. Isn’t it?. It has become a basic necessity in our day to day life.

But, the climate condition is an assumption in science. We don’t know whether it is irreparable or not. Like how the climate conditions were not in our hands before any living being born, the nature ‘might’ have the quality to repair/refresh itself.

What do you feel?

25

Good morning Philip,

Please, just “Charley”…

What do you mean by saying,

Do you really think that it is a matter of “acceptance”, or on the other hand, rejection that something must be done? Do you see freedom as a goal to be obtained? I never thought of freedom in that way, as a goal. I was (if I recall, which is difficult for me, personally) - I just realized then how many beliefs that I had had, and how ludicrous it was to be burdened with them. So it was just then, in that moment, there began a ruthless examination of discovering what those beliefs were, seeing them for what they were, and then dropping them, putting them aside - I don’t remember them except for the last one, which came up several years later in a situation with someone - a favourite phrase of my mom’s, to the effect that if you look deeply enough at another, you will discover goodness in them, something like that. It was quite a shock to discover that that was false.

I cannot say that “I am free”, psychologically. Were I to say that, it would mean that the “I” has a thought or a memory of freedom, a knowing of that, and then of course, it would be a lie.

It is likely that all of us (on this site) enjoy the freedom of living in capitalist autocracies (joke), where the meaning of life as the governments (and corporations) would like us to believe is that our existence is predicated on just how much and what our contributions to the GDP means… to everyone in our particular societies, that the meaning of our life is linked to our GDP contributions. You will see what such governments and societies think of you and how they treat you, if - god forbid (another joke) - you decide to break away from such a society.

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Hi False,

I do not know that the point of no returned has been reached. The mind/heart just said it to me. That’s all I can and will say, about that.

Are you serious about saying it is an assumption? Really?? What world are you living in? Are you saying that you reject science? I wear a surgical mask when I go outside. The moment I enter my apartment, I wash my hands. In two days, I will receive an injection of Moderna, Part II.

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27

We learn from nature that thought has its place, and our species has misplaced it by giving greater importance to reviewing the past, projecting the future, and imagining the present, than to being alert and attentive. We abide in the eternal present burdened and hobbled by what we presume to know about what was and what will be.

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Sorry, was using “we accept” in a broad sense. As far as I can tell, myself and everyone at one point, have thought of understanding the nature of reality as a goal that we will one day discover. We have to ruthlessly examine the beliefs we accept as being “who we are”, in order to live a clear and free life, regardless of the situation. So as for my personal answer, searching for truth is like working a job for 35 years or so. Realizing that truth isn’t an object that can be obtained, is like entering retirement (lol!).

We are already free, means that the very miracle, by which we are even conscious, is more than enough for any circumstance in life to be viewed… not only in a peaceful way, but we are that peaceful awareness of being-alive…!

Any belief must begin, with being aware. From that, we view the objective-subjective world, and begin to “write our story”. It really is incredibly simple. like listening to a song, all songs begin and end with silence. We are somehow born, live a symphony of events, then something happens that stops our living body. Most people go from here into depressive thoughts, but I refuse that. At the “end” of my search, I found that happiness actually has everything to do with being aware of the fact that we are conscious, not with all the objects which we believe will create happiness.

We are always knowing ourselves, all the time! All that could matter, is knowing this-now. There is no lie, only misconceptions… some of which might be scary to face, which is why several people I’ve listened to speak about having the courage to be honest with our actual experience.

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Hey Philip,

I understand, yes. It just dawned on me that my original approach which became a sort of a protocol while reading K was that I was usually stumped when K would mention stuff of which I felt that I couldn’t really grasp at that time, so I usually skipped those parts and got into things I considered I could handle, that I considered I might be able to grasp, and felt I could always reread the other parts later - after I had gotten what I could grasp. He did warn against speculation, so I felt if what I understood from him and testing those things were false, eventually what he talked about would all fall apart, an interesting risk. Of course, hasn’t happened, yet!

30

I don’t reject science. But science are based only on some assumptions and it is not accurate and fully free.

What is science? They observe the effects of something. While doing this observation, they create an assumption for every law.

They can inform a cyclone is going to form, few days before because of the climatic conditions (i.e. air moves up from the ocean surface). But, do they know why the air moves upward suddenly and not every time? As they don’t know why - they named it as climatic conditions. This conditioning is what I mention as assumptions. They observe the effects of the conditions and created the law If this happens, it will bring such and such effect. But when and why it happens, no one knows.

In case of COVID-19 too, how the virus mutates itself, no one knows. It happens. But only observing the effects, they prescribe the remedy for it.

One can say/know “this is the problem, and this is the way to solve the problem”. But why/how this problem arises - science cannot say that.

We/Science didn’t created the seasons. Not the Sun. It happens. We say it as Nature, as we don’t know what it is and what will happen in future.

And so I say, Nature might (may (or) may not) have the ability to renew itself, if in need. We don’t have to suffer for what happened before and what will happen in future, of this Nature.

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Hi Viswanath,

Ah, now I understand what you meant when you suggested that science is based on some assumptions (and observation), because it is based on knowledge, and you are inferring that knowledge is limited, right?

Yes, indeed. In many instances, yes,

nature (as life itself) does in simple circumstances seem to be able to heal imbalances.

I will add (because you asked elsewhere in this forum) that because knowledge is limited and stored in the brain, thought/thinking, which uses that knowledge, is coloured and influenced by that very knowledge.

However, the mind/heart has never been wrong, so to speak, in Charley’s case. So, I live with the fact of that. The projections of scientists (and especially the politicians who rely on what the scientists say), such as the point of no return being based on projection scenarios such as I see on online with various years (2030, 2050, 2100, etc.) appear ridiculous, as they are based on the greed of the self of many who don’t care about the damage being done. The mind/heart also stated that Charley will never contract Covid-19, but I continue to take care and take personal precautions, in spite of the fact that there are signs in the building I live that say that we must wear masks in the common areas of the building (I would wear a mask, even if there weren’t such signs.) The small area in B.C. that I live in has one of the lowest incidence of Covid-19 cases in all of Canada. So, I do not really go around thinking about the potential danger of Covid-19 or of the danger of climate change to oneself. My personal carbon footprint is pretty low, as well. I do insist though that climate change is a real observable fact, and the importance of observing “what is” happening outside in the world that we live in. Having said all this, I could be wrong, I could be insane, or I could be even lying. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

Um, interesting question, most of Charley’s extraneous capacity re: feelings seem to have disappeared because of all the meditation. I will cite one instance: this computer store where Charley lives tried to cheat me on a transaction. So I stood there, politely insisted that he return my money, and stared at the salesman, and we locked eyes for 5 minutes. He gave up after 5 minutes and returned my money. He was a crook. I had no feelings about him or the incident. In the same way, I have no feelings about a great many things.

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Disappeared? Are you sure? What about the feeling of “politeness” in insisting to return money?

In that situation, when you came to know that the “person” in the store (and not the computer store. I feel only because of the human’s behavior, the whole thing said/constructed attains a ‘bad’ name among people) tried to cheat you, what happened within you?

You might have fought with him (or) left the store forgiving him and let him keep the money as a donation as he need it (only because of in need he tried to cheat. Isn’t it?), but what made you to ask him return the money?

Say, if you two had locked eyes, and he was so stubborn even after 30 minutes (or) more, what you would have done? The ‘feeling’ that “I will surely get back the money” had made you stay ‘polite’ (or) something else? And now, am I feeling ‘satisfied’ of my behavior, and I feel ‘this might bring a better image about me in this forum’ and so I share it to others?.

If I had asked “What happened in the store?”, and you are being open - then i feel there may be ‘nothing’. But, what made you to share that incident voluntarily without being asked?

You don’t have to answer these questions. Just feel true to yourself and these questions might open up “Whether I was actually had no feelings? (or) I felt keen that the money will come back (or) etc… questions”.

Yes, it is coloured/influenced by knowledge. So what? Could you share what are the ‘effects’ of this influence?

33

Hi again Viswanath,

I am a polite person, with everyone.

Nothing happened within me, nothing, no reactions, no anger, nothing.

I don’t recall the exact reasons, but it had something to do with having requested certain things done to a hard drive which weren’t done.

That question is speculation.

You asked, the following question:

You did ask, you did! As I have noticed in glancing over other posts, you tend to ask elsewhere on this forum, the following question:

So, I brought up feelings.

Well, the um… well, (cough) Viswanath, has it ever occurred to you that the very question you ask… well, the answer is in the question. A good question might lead somewhere - but is an intellectual understanding of the answer all that you are exploring? Enquiry itself is tainted or affected (not sure if that is the correct word, but…) by the thinking, by thought itself, right?

This entire forum allows for enquiry. As I said before, I am not saying that one should or should not ask questions. Questions have their place.

Personally, all I do is read posts here, post a few comments, and wonder about the “effects” - of the cumulative effects on those who ask these questions, incessantly. You would have to ask those (including yourself) who pose these questions incessantly what they are getting out this “process”, what they have gotten out of this “process”. Personally, I don’t mind this questioning, I can only say that it is their life, not mine.

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Yes. I did ask what you feel about the questions and reply I made. But I hadn’t asked what happened in the store. Isn’t it?

Yes. Enquiry is ‘tainted’. I ask, so what? is it a ‘bad’ thing? Is it doesn’t satisfy my expectations? Is it a wrong thing to be tainted? (or) what are the ‘effects’ of being tainted?

Yes. The knowledge distorts us to look at something. But how I know whether I speak/enquire from knowledge (or) any other? Only by questioning ‘what I am doing?’ every moment - let me look at it what it is. But ‘labeling’ it as ‘tainted’ and staying away from it, is a thing to be questioned. Isn’t it?

Okay, now Viswa is tainted. He only replies from the knowledge he has. So what? What are the ‘effects’ happens within you when I post this tainted replies? A child asks you many questions because of some knowledge. Will you just leave him without replying it and stop the conversation with him (or) look at the questions and reply it until the child himself ends the dialogue?

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Viswanath

Only!!!, what about passive awareness?

re: children, omg!, many children ask questions just to get attention, right? - apart from understanding life around them. Children are constantly exploring the environment around them, and most people don’t even love their children. Viswanath, I am responding to every question you ask… what more do you want? Do you want to just “hold hands”?

36

Viswanath,

I recall once seeing in a park. As I stood, I noticed far off a crowd of dozens including children walking along, talking, making a lot of noise, and there was this grey cloud of thought surrounding all of them as they walked. Nearby where I was standing, a mother and her two children were hunched over a small platform close to the water, observing the koi in that pond. All three were absolutely silent, and just looking and observing the koi. That mother loved her children. It was so beautiful to see.

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Are you saying that happiness is awareness of consciousness, regardless of what is happening?

If “all the objects which we believe will create happiness” do not create happiness because happiness is not created, but constant when there’s no belief or misconception, then the pursuit of happiness is the “happiness” of pursuit.

38

We are having a dreadful heat wave here, called a “heat dome”, breaking all records; in my area, temperature is approx. > 12-15°F above previous highest records. (…climate change…)

Was out and about, mainly because I have a bus pass, and all the buses are air-conditioned. While waiting for a bus, the gulls were making a lot of noise, it was strange, so I looked up, and they were flying all over the place, screeching and such, and then I saw a hawk soaring above them. The hawk was so beautiful. (ya know, we are part animals, right?)

I saw on TV that the U.S. govt. has released all these tapes on UAPs. Never saw one in my life, not even in all the past lives either, so I have no idea what to make of what sort of things one sees flying about … in nature ?!

39

Well, it’s official, Canada has just released its Canada’s Changing Climate Report:

If you are all interested, the full report is available to read or to download as a pdf as follows:

Canada’s Changing Climate Report

Among many things, it says:

“Extreme temperature changes, both in observations and future projections, are consistent with warming. Extreme warm temperatures have become hotter, while extreme cold temperatures have become less cold. Such changes are projected to continue in the future, with the magnitude of change proportional to the magnitude of mean temperature change.”

In other words, we can expect this situation to continue and to get worse, temperatures will be more intense and will affect nature (weather, flooding, drought, fires, crops - already, local crops of raspberries and fruit have already been destroyed here, the fruit on these trees and bushes have “baked” and are completely unusable), and obviously our health will be affected.

“Global emissions of carbon dioxide from human activity will largely determine how much warming Canada and the world will experience in the future, and this warming is effectively irreversible.”

As of today, Wednesday, here in B.C., there have been at least 777 sudden deaths over a 7-day period because of the heat. (I keep editing the number of heat-related dates as more info comes in.) Most of housing here does not have air-conditioning - temperate climate… well, not any more. We are just not used to such heat. So sad. Mainly seniors… wait… Charley is a senior!

41

I’ve been reading a number of Thomas Hardy novels recently. In one of them, I think it may have been “The Woodlanders”, a character talks about different species of trees having different “singing voices”, as the wind blowing through the leaves and branches of different types of trees makes a completely different sound. I spend quite a lot of time walking in wooded areas but had never noticed this. It just goes to show what can be learned if we really listen.