I’m not sure we are communicating about exactly the same issue Dan.
I wasn’t saying that the contents are “different”, but rather that the contents are similar.
My question is really, how does this perception of a shared similarity (i.e. everyone suffers, everyone gets lonely sometimes, etc) turn into the perception that my consciousness is essentially the same as another person’s consciousness?
So when you say “You can’t be you and be the world”, this is (at one level at least) precisely the opposite of what I understand Krishnamurti to be saying.
So, for example, Krishnamurti says:
Sir, is the world separate from us? Are we not, each one of us, in disorder, confused.
(Talk 2, Stanford University, 1969)
So K is here pointing out that the (egoistic) confusion of the world is the same as one’s own (egoistic) confusion. Or, to put it differently, the egoism of oneself is the egoism of the world.
Do you see the point I am making?
Krishnamurti makes this inference time and again in his talks:
You are related to the whole of mankind, because you are like the rest of mankind… the rest of [humanity], wherever he may live, because he suffers, you suffer, and all the rest of it. Psychologically you are the world and the world is you.
(Talk 2, Colombo, 1980)
Now what I am drawing people’s attention to is where K says - as in the extract just shared - ‘You are the rest of the world because you are ‘like’ the rest of the world’. Do you see this inference that K draws?
Now, it is certainly the case that K doesn’t just stop there with egoistic consciousness - he also points towards a true unity of consciousness that lies beyond our egotism. One can see this in the way he develops the matter in the following extract:
Every human being in the world, everyone from the most primitive, from the most uneducated, to the most highly sophisticated, educated, they go through all this—faith, fear, longing, depression, anxiety, sorrow, pain—every human being in the world goes through it, whether he/she is a Communist, Socialist, Capitalist, or Democrat, or doesn’t belong to any group.
So this consciousness is shared by all human beings…
You are the rest of mankind, you are humanity. And when you separate yourself then all the problems begin…
Then one begins to realise the nature of love. Though you may love another, but that love is not restricted to one because you are the entire humanity. You are the world, and the world is you.
(Talk 2, Brockwood Park, 1984)
One can see that Krishnamurti moves from showing how the contents of our consciousness are similar, to then saying they are essentially shared, i.e. the same. And then explains that this perception flowers in a sense of impersonal love, love for the whole of humanity.
The step I am missing (by which I mean a step in my own comprehension, understanding or perception) is the transition from similar to same.
- ‘I am similar to all other people’, or ‘My consciousness is like all other people’s consciousness’.
- ‘I am the world’; ‘My consciousness is the consciousness of humanity’.
Perhaps the point that you and Douglas are making is that the very fact of being conscious, together with the very fact of one’s being a human being = the fact that one’s consciousness is the consciousness of humanity?
Is this what you and @macdougdoug are saying?