Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. How sad that so many humans buy into this malarkey.
Until the self ends, there is no peace on the earth.
What is it that you see K was saying?
Humans are either in order, or in complete disorder. Which is it?
And what is at the root of that?
The question is that does the world belong to me?
No , there is nothing in the world that belongs to me because of death.
Why are we dealing with any of this through our imagination?
Do we? Why? Are we therefore more concerned about the appearance of our response than about anything else?
I have no idea. Focused awareness is still going to be limited. That much is clear.
But fear is our reality. We said fear and violence is our first response.
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Fear is part of our reality. Violence too. Also: love, compassion, intelligence. To be consciously aware of all of reality as it arises is what I mean by grounded in reality.
I don’t see humans being either totally ordered or disordered, I see order and disorder as opposite extremes and humans residing (fluidly) somewhere in-between. We are in some ways rational, in other ways irrational.
I am not talking about parts of our reality. Where there is any trace of fear, it affects the whole field. Then we create the ideal concepts of love, compassion and intelligence to counter the real feelings we have of being violent and afraid. So let’s stick with what is real about us, explore it together and allow what is real about us to reveal its whole nature, unimpeded by all the many things we may want to do about the unpleasantness of it.
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You have coined beautifully precisely why humans remain in complete disorder.
As K asked: Did humanity take a wrong turn?
Clearly, current human behaviour is not evolutionary, but driven by the self as psychological time.
The self by nature is divided, and in complete disorder, is it not? Hence continuous conflict - war.
Is it possible for conflict to end if the self does not?
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That’s what I’m trying to do. Fear is real. So is love. And everything else we experience. They all affect the whole field, they are the field.
Lessen, yes. Totally end? I doubt it. But why would one want conflict to totally end?
I don’t know anything about love. But when I see on the news that two countries are going to war, I feel afraid. That’s the issue we are addressing, isn’t it?
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You don’t know about love, but you know about fear?
I feel afraid. Don’t you? Looking at what is happening, even though it is across the sea.
You may put it another way, use a different word, but the feeling is a feeling of fear, when you go to the root of it. Otherwise, why would you even start this thread?
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Sure I feel fear about Ukraine. I feel other things too, it’s multiflavored. Is it one taste for you?
I started this thread to see how people who have spent time studying Krishnamurti and Bohm are understanding and reacting to the Ukraine situation. I’m interested in observing how the theory gets put into real world practice, or not.
Conflict is division - division is war. There is no learning, and no listening, when there is conflict.
Seeing that there is only one human brain on the planet IS LOVE. There is no conflict in that.
The content of human consciousness as self is divisive - of conflict and violence. The question is: Can conflict be, when there is total attention?
Where total attention is, can there be a self?
Human beings are the only species on the earth who lie to themselves.
Is that ‘liar’ the self?
“Total attention “ may be what is lacking, what brings it about? Why is it so rare? Why is it so ‘overlooked’?
Attention seems to be optimized for survival and well-being/pleasure. Total attention might not be needed, partial attention might work fine for these things, maybe even better since it can avoid painful things.
Nobody - partial attention is otherwise known as distraction.
While the consciousness acts there can be no total attention as there is no ‘doubt’.
The self does not doubt.
While the brain is certain, total attention, as pure perception, cannot act.
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Dan - Total attention is the insight that where the pattern of self acts there is no doubt. So inattention is the behaviour of division as self.
Can the pattern of self as psychological thought/time be perceived, and with such insight - ended?
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