A person who is in contact ONLY with himself/herself (his interpretations and chemical processes) cannot have real relationships. Do you?
I don’t think anyone is denying that existence, reality or whatever exists - just that we are reacting to our own delusions about that reality - Yes, of course we are in contact, just not the way we believe.
I doubt it. K. talked about human relationships like the one we have with our wives. All he said is what love is not (not envy, not attachment, and so on…) so he set a very high standard for love. Is that a matter of white and black? Is there nothing in between? I do love my wife and I think there is lots of variety in the way people love. K. was very cathegoric but I think we can call love even something not so “perfect” as he meant.
Let’s leave me out of it…it’s for each of us to inquire for ourselves…in our own daily living, isn’t it?
I don’t. Seeing free of all images is of a whole other order than our ordinary seeing …of our wife or child…or the tree or butterfly or sunset.
One can check it in dayly existence. Are you married? If one is quarrelling all the time, that’s a sure sign of lack of love and lack or real contact. So this is a matter each one of us should examine in his/her own life and theoretical discourse don’t lead anywhere.
No…there’s either love or there’s not… as I see it.
Is this not at the heart of the matter as far as thought, and the self are concerned? I need to be clear about two things here. What am I really claiming to be the case about myself and my reality, and what is the threat to myself if it is not real? I need to go very deeply into things in myself, and for that there cannot be reservations, or exceptions, and fears around them, otherwise that will act as a constraint on what I am willing to face. As Krishnamurti pointed out over and over, I have to stay with the fact, and be able to hold it without flinching or escaping. I have to look at it in the round, and for that I cannot have any constraint. I cannot have the fear of madness, I cannot have the security of the group think, I cannot just have what I think I know, snd what must be true at all costs.
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Then perhaps I’m on a whole other order than ordinary seeing. I managed more than once to look at my wife without any image.
That’s love. The other…seeing and relating to the images…is not. That’s what K was saying, no?
Dominic, please don’t take it badly but I really cannot follow you here.
I tried to stay simple and talk about simple things of our life. Can you be that simple too?
I think it’s love but I’m really hesitant to use that word… K. is such a hard mountain to climb and one can never be sure that what one has found is just what he meant.
Then also you are setting too high standard! 
Well, if really, as K. said, there’s either love or there’s not, then our lives are really miserable…
I think that we can shift from “love with images” to pure love and vice versa, once in a while depending on the kind of person we are. Like we shift from thinking to perceptions many times in a minute.
Isn’t that the problem with all ‘authority’ in this realm?. The ‘certainty’ has to be in myself, not a matching up what is seen in myself with what another may have said or seen? We can never be sure of that. That is the “aloneness” isn’t it?.
Yes, absolutely. But we are always referring to K. in these discussions (and we cannot help it) and so comparing our realizations with what he said… When I finished that reply of mine to Thomas I was on the verge of adding: perhaps we should forget about K. and check for ourselves if our is really love. As I said to McDough, we have the possibility to check if we really love our wife looking at how we behave and how we react to her.
Sorry I didn’t mean you, I was replying to McDough. (I must have clicked the wrong button). And I told him exactly what you say in the last part of your sentence.
Regardless of a person’s belief system and how they see love, is there love without an insight into the whole working of conditioning?
Yes. Just look around you and maybe even farther. You might discover really loving people who never heard about conditioning.
Never heard of conditioning, or free of conditioning?
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Come on Dominic, love is a spontaneous thing. If we put in it our knowledge we reduce it to an intellectual topic. Can you put aside all words and just love? You told me once that you went for a hike in nature, what was your relationship with that? Where you thinking of conditioning?