What is it that brings about insight? Curiosity, experimentation, studying, meditation, etc? I don’t know. Maybe getting older brings about an urgency? One thing lately that I would like to mention is this idea of living with one’s own death. As a fact. That ‘somewhere in time’ I have already died. Likewise, as in ‘somewhere in time’ I am being born. Somwhere in time I am dead. It sounds fanciful but it has an energy to see oneself and everything, everyone, around oneself in a ‘precious’ light: here now but also gone, dead. Sounds depressing but it’s actually not. It is simply a fact that all this, everything ‘will’ be gone. (already gone?) and it can bring about a realization of the fact of living in this mystery of anything, any of us, being here at all.
All this, the K foundations, the teachings, the websites, the forums, and the people who are contributing, at some level this is what someone is associated with through memory. The memory is what divides. The division is disharmony. Don’t think this means there is somewhere, some action, called harmony. The thinking, reconciling, promoting, appealing, is in division. The responsibility in all circumstances, is to be responding free from conflict.
Thank you for your warm welcome in your country club.
When the “mind is silent”, does it mean a meditative state when gazing at the landscape or watching ripples on a pond? I don’t think you can do that when looking at your wife, child or neighbor. Can you? It would be extremely dangerous if the “mind go silent” when you are at the wheel of your car on a freeway or in a cockpit of a commercial airliner at 30,000 feet even on autopilot.
Yes, but that’s a knee-jerk reaction, and one knows well enough to let such reactions fizzle out while a more rational response arises.
What is your point? Beside your being free from “knee jerk” reactions?
And rational thinking has solved man’s violence…ended suffering? Or is it more of the same thought that has gotten us stuck in the misery most of us live in…the wars, violence, drugs, crime, etc. Rational thought has been totally ineffective in changing man I would say.
Your jump to the conclusion that I am free from knee-jerk reactions is a knee-jerk reaction
I would say that’s your opinion
I was referring to the ‘total mutation’ or transformation that K spoke of. Of course there’ve been many superficial changes and some profound changes in society, yet man remains as he has been for many thousands of years…violent, greedy, afraid, attached, despondent, suffering, abusive to others, etc.
That seems to be a general fact. Something ‘happened’ to a few somehow along the way, and they exhibited a different way of ‘being’…They “flowered”? One of these who somehow escaped ‘conditioning’ , who ‘matured’, was Krishnamurti and he made it his life’s work to “set men free”. Why did he fail? Why did after 60 intense years, according to him, no one ‘get it’? Was it because of the ‘conditioning’ that he never had to overcome? Was he and some of the notable others, simply ‘freaks’? Is it unrealistic to think that by studying all that has been written, and by one’s own work, experimentation, meditation, etc. that this ‘freedom’ can occur or is ‘something’ else necessary for a transformation of conciousness to take place? Something that is totally beyond our control. Something that a ‘self’ can never allow? We can’t answer that so we go on, buoyed by insight into the self’s workings. Not even understanding the effects of our own personal ‘muddlings’ (given that it has been said, rightly or wrongly, that we “are the world.”).
Yes…this seems to be the case. Do we see this as a fact? If we do, then we won’t seek…intellectually…within the content of consciousness.
It seems inescapable, for all the words we use, we are still looking at questions and answers in a field of thought. We may talk about seeing a fact, but conceptually think about it as some thing, some aspect, to see. Whereas the fact is not the seeing, not the see-er, as we know it. It is not something relative to the see-er’s ability. Basically we still propose goals, experiences, like mystics. Whereas the fact precedes all of that.
Yes, we do this no matter who points out a fact. We do it with K’s ‘facts’ all the time. Well, I assume most of us do because I do, myself.
Makes sense…yet, K continued throughout his life to point to facts, right? AS if we could do something to see…to see the fact as fact…as true or false. He must have felt that is was important to do it, right?
You speak as if Krishnamurti was some alien “on the other shore” with a special power to see facts in a way that we cannot.
Facts are facts irregardless of who points them out.
I wonder if any of us have discovered the truth or falsity of what we read or heard with regard to the Krishnamurti teaching. If there are any discoveries about ourselves, they are our facts, the kind of “Krishnamurti facts” that cannot verified by others.
True, except that Krishnamurti facts have not been proven and validated by anyone. Even Krishnamurti confirmed that to be the case when he said that “no one has gotten it”.
And you know this to be a fact? How so?
I can’t know, and that’s a fact. This is the peculiarity of “Krishnamurti facts” which can be shared by like-minded people but cannot be proven in the real world.