The Limit of Thought

It does, if the disharmony out there spills into my daily life disrupting it at the practical level. Being the observed doesn’t confer any dispensation from physical threats. :grin:

Yourself is an illusion crafted and maintained by the self-deceiving mind, so I wouldn’t call it a “jewel”.

No, it’s innate limitation is that which it cannot do. Memory is something that it can and does do.

It’s one thing to speak of this insight, and quite another to speak from its effect.

It’s limited by memory however. You can’t deny that memory is limited right? Like knowledge is limited. Is your memory of the elephant the whole of the elephant? is your memory of your neighbor, your neighbor? Is memory the living person or animal?

Well that’s fine. No problem.

And you have set yourself as the ‘judge’ of that? Based on what?

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Thought, cognition, the mind, call it what you want, is a limited process, whether we’re specifying memory, analysis, computation, etc. But thought has the ability to learn and expand its capacity and extend its limits. All of thought’s limit-extending ability is made possible by its concept of time which, when upended by timelessness, puts thought in its place.

When thought loses its sense of time for a moment, it loses its mind, so to speak, and for that moment is free. This happens to all of us, but for only a moment because thought is not ready to acknowledge its fundamental limitation. It does not see how it makes time out of timelessness.

Timelessness. It must have occurred - even for a moment. What is the significance of this momentarily state? Does it have any relevance to your life, or mine?

It signifies the fact that we’re under the influence of chronological time.

What’s wrong with that? We are also under the influence of physical space, as well as, gravity.

Chronological time is a mind construct; invented by thought. It’s the standardization of the natural process. Timelessness is the unfolding of events without measurement. What Krishnamurti called, “immeasurable”.

Thought, time, measures the immeasurable for practical purposes, and doesn’t see the harm of making measure the rule rather than the exception.

Excuse me. I think you mean psychological time is a mind construct; invented by thought. Chronological time is real. A day is so long. It takes so long for the earth to circle the sun, the earth is so old. You are a certain age. It takes so long to cook a chicken, etc. All that is chronological time. It’s real. What thought has done is invent units of time to measure these intervals of time: year, month, week, hour, minutes, seconds.

Wow, I agree. You are right. I am so happy that we see eye to eye on this. It takes time to cook the chicken. And this is as sane as we can get.

Son, do your parents know that you are spending all this time on an adult site? You’re the one who thinks there is no violence. One of the most absurd statements I’ve ever heard. You don’t even know enough to know how ridiculous your statements are. Please, I am sure there are any number of video games you could be playing or whatever kids do on their electronic toys.

What do you call the unfolding of events when the mind isn’t measuring? What was time before we conditioned ourselves and each other to measure the ongoing process of life by a standard adhered to by everyone?

I don’t call it anything. I don’t see what your questions have to do with the two times. I’ll post something below that K pointed out about the two kinds of times.

J. Krishnamurti Talk in Europe; 3rd Public Talk, Amsterdam, 24th May, 1967

Thought has created time, not time by the watch, chronological time, but psychological time. Thought has created time, the future, the tomorrow, ‘I will be’, `I should be’. Please use the words of the speaker as a mirror to observe yourself. There is not only time as the past, psychologically, there is also time as the present and time as tomorrow; the past, present and future. It is a movement, divided by thought as yesterday, with all the accumulation of a million yesterdays, moving into the present, which is today, meeting different conditions, different experiences, and passing through the present to tomorrow, the future.

This movement of time, psychologically, is the movement of thought. I was happy yesterday and am rather miserable today and I hope tomorrow I will be happy again. I have had a marvellous experience looking at a sunset, the light on the water, the trees with the birds singing, and that remains in my mind as memory, and tomorrow I want it again repeated. So thought, through pleasure, creates the past, the present and the future. One can see it oneself, very simply: all the delights of youth, the pleasures that one has had, and the repetition of those pleasures in the present and the demand of it for the future, all based on thought. Thought creates, breeds, puts together the psychological structure of time. And so thought breeds sorrow; because thought is always pursuing pleasure and avoiding pain. Thought not only engenders sorrow but sustains it. And so one finds thought is time and sorrow. Being in sorrow we say to ourselves that we must find a way out, which is again the whole process of thinking set into motion.

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Chronological time is a measurement. Once we invented chronology, the means of measuring one aspect of the time/space continuum, we standardized human experience. It all may have begun with the first chronometer, the sun dial.

What we think of as “time”, is a measurement of actuality. This is why he said that “thought is time”. They are both means of measuring what-is, fragmenting the whole.

K said thought is psychological time. He specifically said that thought has not created time by the watch, chronological time. There are a few people on this forum, unfortunately, who simply can’t let go of their preconceived notions and beliefs.

What K pointed out in the quote I posted is quite clear. Your post about the definition of “Chronology” has nothing to do with what K pointed out about chronological time. Read what K said again and try to understand it with out your own personal beliefs getting in the way.

I’m done talking about this. If you can’t see the simple facts of psychological and chronological times as explained by K there is nothing I’m going to say to change your mind.